Where do I stand on this? (eBay, Paypal, etc)

Durzel · 1 Oct 2008 at 23:46

I was going to make this a general rant about scammers etc but I would ideally like to get some reassurance about my personal situation.

Bought an Enermax Galaxy 1000W EGA1000EWL PSU recently on eBay from a seller with over 200 positive (100%) feedback. Auction mentioned it had been removed from a Vadim (?) PC but that it was functioning as normal.

Received it today and first thing I noticed straight away is that several cables have been snipped with pliers. The 3 Molex connectors that come out of the permanently-connected loom (it's a modular PSU) only has 1 Molex with the wires that would normally go to the other 2 on the connector snipped.

Both 6+2 PCI-E connectors have had the +2 pins snipped and taped up with electrical tape. This alone renders the PSU useless for me as I needed 8-pin PCI-E connector(s) for my graphics card.

I sent an email to the seller and filed a "Item Significantly Not As Described" Paypal dispute but I'm worried that I'm going to get into a massive bunfight with the seller stating that the PSU was "fine when he sent it", or whatever, and end up out of pocket over this. Do Paypal normally side with the buyer?

Keen to hear views on this as it wasn't particularly cheap (£100+).

(Sorry if I've broken any rules mentioning eBay and Paypal but it's kinda hard not to given the topic)

PwnDirect · 1 Oct 2008 at 23:51

He has modified the product if he didnt state this then paypal will side with you.

Also why would you damage your own product there is nothing to be gained paypal will understand this.

MeatLoaf · 2 Oct 2008 at 08:06

Were there any pictures of the item on the listing or any mention that it had been butchered?

Maccy · 2 Oct 2008 at 08:33

I would've taken it up with the seller before going to PayPal. Trying to go for the friendly approach is always best before attacking them!

However, if everything is how you say it is then there should be no problem with PayPal taking your side.

jaybee · 2 Oct 2008 at 08:36

Maccy said:
I would've taken it up with the seller before going to PayPal. Trying to go for the friendly approach is always best before attacking them!

However, if everything is how you say it is then there should be no problem with PayPal taking your side.

Yeah I would have gone straight to seller first but hey ho

Durzel · 2 Oct 2008 at 09:56

No pictures in the auction. No mention that it had been butchered. Looking at the auction again it mentions the cables that are present and explicitly says "1 Molex" (instead of 3), "2 6-pin PCI-E connectors" (instead of 6+2) on the attached loom, etc. It's only from reading a review and seeing the obvious signs of cable snippage that I knew the PSU was modified.

I spoke to the seller at the same time as filing the dispute - I know how long it takes before you can actually get money back after filing a dispute so thought I'd do it proactively (can always cancel it if the seller and I reach a satisfactory conclusion).

He responded to my message last night and has agreed to a return - still means I have to pay to post it back out of my own pocket.

I can't understand why anyone would actually proactively snip off connectors they're not using, especially ones as vital as the +2 connectors on the PCI-E 6+2 - the guy basically de-futureproofed the PSU.

singist · 2 Oct 2008 at 10:10

A bit OT but I had a similar thing ..... item not as described and the seller agreed a refund but I was expected to pay the postage to return the piece of poo; how's that work then ...... send someone crap (intentionally or not) and make them out of pocket for something that isn't their fault; all wrong!

Rainmaker · 2 Oct 2008 at 10:50

On this topic, kinda. The guys at penaltycharges.co.uk, with whom I did quite a lot of work for people - free of charge - in helping them recover bank charges, have launched legal action against PayPal. Basically the allegation is that PayPal have no rights to side with a buyer (or seller) in a contractual dispute, refunding or taking money out of either party's accounts at their own discretion.

6. PAYPAL

Court Proceedings have now been issued against PAYPAL an (eBay company)
We have seen a number of complaints against PayPal just refunded buyer money when there has been a contractual dispute between the buyer and selling. We have asked the court to make a declaration that in contractual disputes between the two parties (buyer and selling) that PayPal has no legal standing to intervene by refunding the buyer money, clearly is there is a contractual dispute the only person who has the power to order a refunded or make an award of money is a Judge at a Court of Law.

This should be interesting...

Tute · 2 Oct 2008 at 11:13

Rainmaker said:
On this topic, kinda. The guys at penaltycharges.co.uk, with whom I did quite a lot of work for people - free of charge - in helping them recover bank charges, have launched legal action against PayPal. Basically the allegation is that PayPal have no rights to side with a buyer (or seller) in a contractual dispute, refunding or taking money out of either party's accounts at their own discretion.

This should be interesting...

Finally someone is doing something about this. It's about damn time.

SB118 · 2 Oct 2008 at 11:38

Rainmaker said:
On this topic, kinda. The guys at penaltycharges.co.uk, with whom I did quite a lot of work for people - free of charge - in helping them recover bank charges, have launched legal action against PayPal. Basically the allegation is that PayPal have no rights to side with a buyer (or seller) in a contractual dispute, refunding or taking money out of either party's accounts at their own discretion.

This should be interesting...

So they're trying to reduce the seller protection even more?

Rainmaker · 2 Oct 2008 at 11:51

SB118 said:
So they're trying to reduce the seller protection even more?

I certainly can't speak for anyone at PenaltyCharges.co.uk but generally speaking: Sellers have the full protection of the law as it stands anyway. If a dispute arises, nothing is stopping them from filing a claim with the Court service. You can even do it online. It's quick and easy, and all decisions are legally binding with bailiff enforcement in case of non-compliance.

That said, if you re-read the quote I posted, you'll notice it says to stop PayPal refunding buyers at their own discretion. That's nothing to do with seller protection anyway, unless I misunderstood you?

The fact is, if PayPal have no legal grounds to make these types of financial deductions, there's nothing to be done. That said, does anyone remember the recent furore over 'Sharia law' (read: Muslims being able to agree to use a Sharia arbiter)? Surely PayPal can argue the same case - that both parties, buyer and seller, agreed on signing up and using the service that PayPal would be the arbiter in any dispute; thus giving them full backing of the law.

As I said, it'll be interesting

SB118 · 2 Oct 2008 at 11:58

My bad, meant buyer protection, doh!