Who owns a new shape Astra?

[MarkDavis]

That's still all in your opinion, and finding one naff looking badly coloured schemed example doesn't really help your case..

The picture is of the interior of the 'Elite' spec model. Elite of course is supposed to mean the very best of the best. And 'Elite' is the highest spec equipment model in the entire Astra range (apart from the VXR) and higher spec'd than Club, Active, Breeze, SXi, SRi, and Design. And yet it's still drab and tacky.

There was no 'dodging'... I just saw some numbers that have no context to them and just thought you'd completely missed the point, which is..
If vauxhalls where any where near as bad as people make out on here, their sales figues would be 'terrible' in comparison to their peers (which in this case is Ford/VW) As long as they are 'up there' with the competition (even if they are slightly behind ford/volkswagon), then clearly enough people think they are fine.

The mediocrity of the majority. The Sun is the UK's best selling newspaper. Not exactly the best quality newspaper is it, or even anything close. It's toilet paper. Actually come to think of it, toilet paper is better quality...

What I think you've done is misrepresent the statistics by not putting any context to them.

Which is exactly what you've done with that 'Top 10' seller list. Have you factored in how many cars Vauxhall sell to fleets and the enormous fleet discounts that they give?

 

[Shimmyhill]

I quite liked the Astra for the few hundred miles i had it, much better than the 06 focus i have done thousands of miles in (are the newer foci worse than the original ??? )

The astra had a better engine, better gear action and better seats ( the focus seats are truly awful, i think punto seats are better ) Ohh and better stereo controls on the wheel

Quite surprised how bad i find the focus, i remember the original one fondly but this one (an estate) has been a huge letdown (refelcted by most in our companies fleet, most prefer the astras they had before yes the previous version astra)

 

[starfighter]

It looks exactly like my 1.6 sxi apart from the SatNav and the Leather.

It was also a lot cheaper than the Golf or an Audi, compare it to a Focus perhaps, but when I got mine the new shape Focus wasn't out so this car was the winner.

Fox, my point was that the interior is good, I agree I can't comment on the engine, but the fact that I have only owned an Escort perviosuly does not stop me having an informed oppinion regarding the interior.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Mine feels a lot more solid than my old Focus did (had an 05 one), when you close the doors, boot, they feel nice and heavy and make a deep kerdunk sound when you close them, my Focus sounded like when you close the door with the window fully open, crappy tinny sound, plus the Focus creaked when you went round bends etc....

If you can't reach the seatbelt then you just wrap it over the back of the seat, i don't have to do that though as i can easily reach mine as i need the seat fully back, so the seatbelt is right next to me ear.

I also like the hydraulic bonnet.

 

[Demon]

Context? Percentage market share not clear enough?

OK, clearly I should have padded it out like a story book. These figures are across Europe, I should have said. The UK is not a good base for sales figures as it is none of the euro 3's largest market for the vehicles they produce. What I was getting at is that the Vectra is nowhere to be seen, Astra is bottom of big 3 hatchbacks, Corsa is only selling marginally better than a 2 year old car. Meriva is top of a segment which sells very little. Get the picture? What you said about sales is totally not true, EVERY B, C and CD vehicle that Ford or VW make is top or near top of their segment in consumer sales. Vauxhall, despite making cars which compete directly, show up very little. In essence, no, they are not 'right up there' with their competitors. I'm not totally bashing vauxhall, I like some of their cars, but because you said that about sales I had to pick up on it and point out that not everything you say is true.

I'm not saying that VX are absolutely terrible, I dont share many of the opinions of people on here, and this forum certainly isnt a 'normal' for the public, the fact is VX are having trouble against their competitors, and it isnt as level a playing field as you make it out to be, therefore gives an impression that their cars AREN'T what you crack them up to be. The comment about marketing was to make the point that VX have tried to market their vehicles, moreso than some of their competitors, and STILL manage to be in the position they are in.

I hope that clears things up. I'm just telling you why I believe that VX are behind, and not trying to be an arse

Before I get into the reply, I don't quite get why you concentrating so deeply on this one point..

I was quite vague when I said sales, perhaps I should clarify the statement as, that some people are terribly bashing Vx, blindly saying that all their cars are 'dire', 'terrible' etc, yet the press reviews and sales figures suggested that they where in actual fact pretty much OK, and up their with the Ford/VW equivalant models.. (And when I say up there, what I mean is that they are in the mix, i.e. some better, some worse)

The key thing I meant (and didn't directly say) was equivalent models..

Lets go through the main models
1. Corsa - This seems to be doing very well
2. Astra - This seems to be OK, in the UK it's selling very well, perhaps you can let us know the figures for Europe Vs Focus/Golf
3. Zafira - No idea on this, but I bet it's not a million miles behind the Smax/Touran
4. The Vectra - should be the worst performer of the range in it's class, it's old, and the insignia can't come soon enough
5. The Meriva - I know it doesn't sell loads, but then it's competition is the Fusion, and you've said it's selling well in comparison..
6.The Agila - No idea..


I don't doubt that total sales for the entire brand is lower then Ford/VW as a whole, but that surely is a more complex subject..

There are many manufactures in each class/segment, all I've been saying is that even if Vx are 3rd, thats still high up the chart compared to all the different manufacturers in each class.

That is all, I'm not trying to claim Vx are better then anyone, I'm just trying to put some balance and perspective to the slightly OTT negative comments in the thread.

 

[[TW]Fox]

More interesting figures would be UK retail sales. Selling 100,000 Vectra is not difficult becuase as crap as they are, when they are offered to people like Enterprise at significant discounts, they are hard to refuse. One of the huge reasons for the Corsas appearance on the top 3 selling cars is because it has massive fleet presence - this is at first unusual becuase supermini's are not huge fleet sellers but then think of driving schools.

Do you think BSM pay list for those Corsas? Nowhere near it - they get them at such favourable rates that they can sell them on for little loss at 6 months old. With deals like that Corsa would need to be fitted with spikes and randomly catch fire to put companies off. Ability is not something thats important.

 

[Demon]

The picture is of the interior of the 'Elite' spec model. Elite of course is supposed to mean the very best of the best. And 'Elite' is the highest spec equipment model in the entire Astra range (apart from the VXR) and higher spec'd than Club, Active, Breeze, SXi, SRi, and Design. And yet it's still drab and tacky.

The SXi/SRi look identical (leather/satnav options of course).. the Design I think is OK as well, so that leaves the Club/Life ( active/breeze are special editions, not part of the normal lineup), so that means that 4 out of the 6 models have OK interiors.. again, I put it to you that you have found the worst example you could and presenting it as though all Astra's where 'bad', I've just put up a picture that is representative of 2/3 of the range which I think is a little fairer.

The mediocrity of the majority. The Sun is the UK's best selling newspaper. Not exactly the best quality newspaper is it, or even anything close. It's toilet paper. Actually come to think of it, toilet paper is better quality...

I've provided plenty of proof/evidence that the Astra is pretty reasonable from several mainstream sources that have compared the Astra side by side with the Focus/Golf on many occasions, the sales thing was just an aside to back up this fact, but of course you can twist it any which way you want.

Which is exactly what you've done with that 'Top 10' seller list. Have you factored in how many cars Vauxhall sell to fleets and the enormous fleet discounts that they give?

No, I've just assumed that Ford as an example also sell in masses to the fleets, and so assumed that the figures are on a levelish playing field, but show me some evidence and I'll be better informed so I can then maybe change the context of the top 10 figures.

Look, it's not personal, I understand that you are entitled to your opinion, I have a different opinion, and I happen to agree with the reviews etc that are about as impartial as you can get, so please lets not argue over it..

 

[Demon]

More interesting figures would be UK retail sales. Selling 100,000 Vectra is not difficult becuase as crap as they are, when they are offered to people like Enterprise at significant discounts, they are hard to refuse. One of the huge reasons for the Corsas appearance on the top 3 selling cars is because it has massive fleet presence - this is at first unusual becuase supermini's are not huge fleet sellers but then think of driving schools.

Do you think BSM pay list for those Corsas? Nowhere near it - they get them at such favourable rates that they can sell them on for little loss at 6 months old. With deals like that Corsa would need to be fitted with spikes and randomly catch fire to put companies off. Ability is not something thats important.

I agree that without a complete breakdown it's largely speculation, but then again, why assume that Vx are the only ones selling in volume with big discounts, if things where that skewed, I'm sure it'd be noted by the motoring presses..

Is it any surprise that the Corsa is pretty much top in it's class when reviewed, and at the moment and sales figures back this up, or that the Astra reviews put it around the Focus/Golf and it's sales figures indicate this also?
It would seem this is not enough, and that Vx must be using underhand tactics to boost figures?

At the end of the day, I'm not on a crusade, and perhaps I'm being too open minded about it, as sales/reviews etc all seem to align reasonably well, and although fleet sales are an area that can skew figures, we have no figures to give this insight, just people's gut feelings, which isn't really upto much is it?

But, I totally agree with everyone that highest sales in class means best car in class.. so lets drop the sales thing, my bad, and it's just an endless debate..

 

[MarkDavis]

you have found the worst example you could

What on earth are you on about? The photo is from a TOP SPEC Elite model. What do you think I've done, made it up using Photoshop?

The Astra has a dull, ugly interior with a lot of slabby grey plastic compared to the best of the opposition. It really is that SIMPLE.

 

[Kappa]

I don't doubt that total sales for the entire brand is lower then Ford/VW as a whole, but that surely is a more complex subject..

There are many manufactures in each class/segment, all I've been saying is that even if Vx are 3rd, thats still high up the chart compared to all the different manufacturers in each class.

That is all, I'm not trying to claim Vx are better then anyone, I'm just trying to put some balance and perspective to the slightly OTT negative comments in the thread.

Thats fine, but to me, in this segment, market share is everything, it proves a car is successful relative to its competitors. We only recieve market share data each month or total vehicles sold for the company, finding exact figures for each vehicle sold is a bit tougher however.

Total sales can be out of the question due to product ranges and commercial vehicles, again, unless we get exact data for each car.

I guess you can tell how much I believe in sales/market share to the success of a product in this segment.

EDIT - any figures I quoted are all consumer (B2C) sales, not fleet

 

[Demon]

What on earth are you on about? The photo is from a TOP SPEC Elite model. What do you think I've done, made it up using Photoshop?

The Astra has a dull, ugly interior with a lot of slabby grey plastic compared to the best of the opposition. It really is that SIMPLE.

Ahh, I see, I didn't realise you meant the photo you posted the link to was an Elite, I thought you meant I'd posted an Elite interior (I'd no idea what the elite looks like)..

I just don't get why you are so blind to the fact that your opinion is your opinion and that it doesn't align with the press reviews etc..

I'm not saying the Astra interior is class leading, nor that it doesn't have a different/flatter/Angular design theme, but the fact YOU don't like it with a passion does not mean plenty of people find it more then acceptable....

Just to show how skewed your comparison was, I'll do one myself in the same manner..

Here's a work of art, with 'orange is the new blue' backlit dials,

And here is epic fail of a golf..

But we all know that Golf interiors generally can look much nicer then that, and as the top photo shows, the Astra in some trim levels also can look pretty reasonable as well..

 

[BeatMaster]

Cheers for everyone's thoughts and opinions - wasn't expecting such a heated debate Although, I decided in the end to plump for a Ford Focus

Just left a depoist subject to viewing on a 54 plate 3 door Ford Focus Edge 1.6 petrol in Machine Silver, 51k miles, FDSH, Climate Pack, 1 owner from new for £3994 I really enjoy the drive of a Ford and with only doing 12k per year, I only save £250 per year in fuel. Therefore the savings out weigh the initial buying costs. Will update once I've been down and picked her up.