Referees - should they be punished more for mistakes?

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Blackburn manager Paul Ince feels referees should get heavier punishments for "diabolical decisions" after seeing his goalkeeper Jason Brown fouled before Manchester United scored their opening goal in their 2-0 win at Ewood Park on Sunday.

I read things like this all the time, and it just got me wondering...would it be a good idea to punish referees more for their mistakes or not?

The sportsman in me knows how frustrating it is to have an inept umpire/referee have a total shocker and make some frankly inexplicable decisions.

But then I'm also aware that there's not exactly a queue of 'flawless' refs waiting in the wings for a chance to take their place. So punishing the 'top' refs for just 'being human', may actually result in an inferior level of refereeing, if they have to be replaced by someone with less experience etc.

Mistakes will always be made in sport, and its part of what makes it interesting - albeit frustrating when you're on the wrong end of a particularly poor decision.

I think for me, I'd prefer to see refs punished for consistently bad performances, rather than for one particularly poor mistake.

What are other people's opinions on this?
 
What are other people's opinions on this?

Oddly enough, we talked about this on Sat night, and my input for the conversation was this:

Mistakes will always be made in sport, and its part of what makes it interesting - albeit frustrating when you're on the wrong end of a particularly poor decision.

I think for me, I'd prefer to see refs punished for consistently bad performances, rather than for one particularly poor mistake.

Sums it up nicely.

I'd also like to see punishments more easily looked at afterwards. Think you got away with something in a match? Not a chance. Though I suppose oddly enough, this is what happens to a certain extent anyway.

Though I do agree that ref's shouldn't be punished, there must be another way for a bit of accomodation if you know what I mean.
 
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Punishing Referees will not fix the problem of bad decisions, this problem has existed and will continue to exist until the FA stop resisting calls for a 4th official - the video Referee who can the on pitch officials on decisions that were not clearly in their view.
 
Why not just have some guy in a dark room watching the match, who can see from replays what the correct decision is, then radio it to the referree on some kinda earpiece whatsit.

It can't be hard..
 
Why not just have some guy in a dark room watching the match, who can see from replays what the correct decision is, then radio it to the referree on some kinda earpiece whatsit.

It can't be hard..

exactly, they have this in other sports, why can't we have it in football? The only argument is that ALL teams should be able to have the technology so it remains consistent - at the moment all teams can have a referee and linesmen.

Also there should be goal-line cameras. This should definately be in place for premier league teams, they are paid so much and so much money rests on decisions that it shouldn't be left to chance.
 
I read things like this all the time, and it just got me wondering...would it be a good idea to punish referees more for their mistakes or not?

The sportsman in me knows how frustrating it is to have an inept umpire/referee have a total shocker and make some frankly inexplicable decisions.

But then I'm also aware that there's not exactly a queue of 'flawless' refs waiting in the wings for a chance to take their place. So punishing the 'top' refs for just 'being human', may actually result in an inferior level of refereeing, if they have to be replaced by someone with less experience etc.

Mistakes will always be made in sport, and its part of what makes it interesting - albeit frustrating when you're on the wrong end of a particularly poor decision.

I think for me, I'd prefer to see refs punished for consistently bad performances, rather than for one particularly poor mistake.

What are other people's opinions on this?

I think they are punished at the moment if they have consistantly bad performances, they're moved down from their current level to a lower one, which will probably result in a lower salary. This has the added effect of allowing up one of the better ref's from the lower level.

What other sort of "punishment" should the ref's have? A financial one?

Consider the situation of a premiership striker, it's his job to put the ball in the back of the net.
If he misses an open goal or has a bad game then a lot of people would say "you need to keep him in to give him game time" or "he's a confidence player".
You wouldn't get rid of him straight away.
But over the space of a number of games if he's still playing like a donkey he'll be dropped and eventually if he's that bad he'll get sold to a lower league team.

Yes referee's decisions can have a crucial effect on the game, but so can the actions of any of the players.

In a post game interview where a suspect pen was given and a striker missed a sitter, all that will be mentioned was the "dodgy ref".
It's all too easy to blame the ref when the blame also lies a lot closer to home.
 
mistakes have always happened in the past, its just the introduction of sky since the prem started which makes more angles to be seenon camera and the constant analysis at half time and full time that makes all the mistakes appear in the newspapers etc
 
They are professional. If I make enough mistakes at work I'm punished. So should they be.

Are you really punished for a genuine 'one-off' mistake? Or do you just mean you'd be punished for consistently poor performance?

I think they are punished at the moment if they have consistantly bad performances, they're moved down from their current level to a lower one, which will probably result in a lower salary. This has the added effect of allowing up one of the better ref's from the lower level.

I believe that some ref's have been punished for having one particularly poor game. I agree on what you have said above, that is fair enough. The question relates to the comments in the OP. Ie should they face further punishment for 'one-off', but particularly poor, decisions?

What other sort of "punishment" should the ref's have? A financial one?

Don't ask me - ask Paul Ince :p

Consider the situation of a premiership striker, it's his job to put the ball in the back of the net.
If he misses an open goal or has a bad game then a lot of people would say "you need to keep him in to give him game time" or "he's a confidence player".
You wouldn't get rid of him straight away.
But over the space of a number of games if he's still playing like a donkey he'll be dropped and eventually if he's that bad he'll get sold to a lower league team.

Yes referee's decisions can have a crucial effect on the game, but so can the actions of any of the players.

In a post game interview where a suspect pen was given and a striker missed a sitter, all that will be mentioned was the "dodgy ref".
It's all too easy to blame the ref when the blame also lies a lot closer to home.

Exactly - players / referees, they are all human and will all make mistakes. you will never remove that. The point being made is that a lot of people will instantly demand that a referee be held accountable for a mistake, particularly if that mistake went against them. However, does punishing the referee in this instance lead to a better level of refereeing or not?

For example, do referee's make poor decisions because it is near impossible for any human to always make the right decision?

Or do referee's make mistakes because they are simply not 'good' enough at their job and so require some form of punishment in an attempt to force a better standard?
 
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They are punished at the moment, think it was Styles last season who got a suspension or something of the sorts for that penalty he gave chelsea against liverpool when malouda jumped into someone off the ball.
 
As others have said, refs always have, and always will make mistakes. It is highlighted today because of video replay which allow every decision to be analysed to death.

The solution is a simple one, either ban video replays or allow refs to use this tecnology to inform their decision!
 
The funny thing is the premiership gets the best refs in the country, now imagine what kind of rubbish you get down in League 2, i've seen some total shockers and it's getting worse, i'd say about 1/3 of games i walk away saying the ref had a reasonable game.
 
As others have said, refs always have, and always will make mistakes. It is highlighted today because of video replay which allow every decision to be analysed to death.

The solution is a simple one, either ban video replays or allow refs to use this tecnology to inform their decision!

Absolutely spot on. I'm a qualified referee (not to Premiership standard, but one day....) and the quality of referring hasn't really changed for years - it's just multi angle, slow motion, CGI enhanced replays give a definitive view of any decision made by a referee. The only tool's the referee has are his two assistants, fourth official and a split second judgement call he has to make having seen any incident first hand.

The solution's difficult.

Do we embrace modern Technology and use this to help the referee or do we leave things the way they are now?

Personally, I'd leave them as they are. Human nature inserts an element of the unknown into the game and, even though referees don't make key mistakes often, it's these that make the game a little less predictable.

Do you want the game stopped all the time whilst decisions are analysed by replay? Will a 90 minute game end up lasting 2 hrs?

Personally, I would give each manager 2 "wildcards" they can use throughout a game. These can be used to briefly stop the game, call the referee over and use Technology, viewed by a 5th official, to analyse the data and give a final decision. It's optional whether this can be displayed on screen to the crowd at the time of the "wildcard" being played.

Well, thats my thoughts on the subject.
 
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I don't believe refs using video replay to help would be that disruptive! In most games it would only have to be used on 2 or 3 occasions.
 
the longer you use video replays, the better the referee's get as the learn instantly what looked bad to them doesn't. Its not the same to them seeing it 4 hours later after a break and seeing different angles. Being told they got a decision wrong on the spot in the moment can only improve their ability to read what really is/isn't a foul and so on. So as ref's get better, their decisions improve and the need for video replay checking is reduced.

Keep saying the NFL red flag system would work perfectly, as it does in most sports, you get to challenge decisions at first people abuse it, 2 months later people stop abusing it and only use it at crucial decisions, then refs get better due to it, and the amount of poor decisions and stopping play briefly get smaller than before the new system and all the surrounding ref and shouting for 5 minutes basically never happen again.

as for poor decisions I think they happen far more often than you think, and yes they should be punished more, if they aren't punished properly wheres the incentive to get better.

i think its been getting noticably worse the last couple of years aswell, multi angle replays, slow motion aren't new, they aren't around in the last 2 years or 5 years, its been common for donkeys years now. THe only really newer thing which has been a few years is the added lines for offside, which frankly anyone with any dept perception can see offsides the same as before anyway.
 
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Its a horrible argument and one which I feel will never be satisfied 100%. After Mendes scored the goal that never was for Spurs at Old Trafford I wanted video replays to be introduced because something that blatantly obvious needed addressing.

However, it will slow the game down and therefore some people dont want it introduced. There was talk of a small chip being stitched into match balls and technology being put on the goal lines so if the ball crossed the line (a goal) then the referee will get a buzz on a device strapped to their arm. This would help rule out any decision on did the ball cross the line? However, this idea was laughed out. In my opinion that would be a better implementation than a video replay of did the ball cross the line.

Also, with decisions being made, and a wrong one, who should be held accountable? I wont use the Watford v Reading scenario as that was appauling, but take the Walcott example at the weekend. The only person in the ground who could make the decision of did the ball go out was the assistant referee, and in his opinion it did. Now, if Wenger came out and kicked off about it, and the PL/FA decided to take action against the official you cannot hold the refereee accountable because it wasnt his call, however, it would be the referee the abuse would be aimed at.

Like penalties for example, the Wigan v City one the other weekend, the referees view was blocked so couldnt see the obvious dive from Palacios, and the linesman flagged for the foul. The referee took the abuse there, when he acted on the advice of his assistant.

Some decisions need reprimanding, the Watford/Reading goal, the penalty against Bolton v United but I would be happier if the referee would take to the press after the game and say, sorry I made a mistake and I apologise. Some times an admission from the referee on tv straight after is enough for some managers as they accept mistakes happen.
 
this is the thing, the big decisions already take a while, play is already fairly broken up even if its 10-15 seconds here and there for small decisions most of them, even slightly wrong basic freekicks won't be contested its only going to be the penalties, dodgy goal decisions either way that will be review and the surrounding the ref for a minute will be avoided.

But this is the key, referee's WILL get better due to experience and stop making the wrong calls in the first place so after a while it could actually be quicker with less wrong decisions than before vid replays.
 
They need to be more accountable. At the moment they appear officious mini-hitler *******s and nothing more. Every so often you'll see a display that is decent - and it'll stick out like a sore thumb because the ref wasn't the centre of attention and didn't want to be.
 
the longer you use video replays, the better the referee's get as the learn instantly what looked bad to them doesn't. Its not the same to them seeing it 4 hours later after a break and seeing different angles. Being told they got a decision wrong on the spot in the moment can only improve their ability to read what really is/isn't a foul and so on.

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you're saying. But I think I disagree, unless I've misunderstood what you've written.

I certainly don't think that instant feedback on their decisions will improve decisions they make in future. Ref's don't (usually) make mistakes because they don't know what is, or isn't, a foul.

They make mistakes because they have to make a decision on how they saw something happen, which isn't always the same as what actually happened. Video replays can be used to help them get more decisions correct, because it offers them alternative views.

It won't actually make the referee any better at recognising a foul though, it just allows him the opportunity to correct what would have been his initial decision.

For example what happens, if it looks like a player has taken a dive in the box and the referee decides to allow play to continue (based on his view of the game). He can't look at a reply, because play is still going on. The defender then punts the ball up field, the forward runs on and scores at the other end. Play stops and the ref reviews the 'dive'. It turns out it should have been a penalty. What happens?

What about the same senario, where play continues, but a player the other striker gets his leg broken in a horror tackle just before he shoots. The ref looks at the 'dive' incident once play stops and decides that play should never have continued, so he goes back and awards the penalty. What happens with the injury? They obviously won't get a free kick for it, as video evidence proved that there should have been a penalty at the other end before hand.


Keep saying the NFL red flag system would work perfectly, as it does in most sports, you get to challenge decisions at first people abuse it, 2 months later people stop abusing it and only use it at crucial decisions, then refs get better due to it, and the amount of poor decisions and stopping play briefly get smaller than before the new system and all the surrounding ref and shouting for 5 minutes basically never happen again.

But football doesn't stop continually like a lot of other sports. Would you only be able to contend a decision where the ref makes a decision that causes the game to stop?

What about when the ref decides to play on after an 'incident'....how does the game stop when you appeal? What if your appeal is incorrect and the ref was actually right to play on?

It would make the game ridiculous imo.


as for poor decisions I think they happen far more often than you think, and yes they should be punished more, if they aren't punished properly wheres the incentive to get better.

As mentioned by most people, consistently poor performances should be punished. The question is, is it right to punish a one-off, but particularly important decision, when someone gets it wrong due to nothing more than human error?

i think its been getting noticably worse the last couple of years aswell, multi angle replays, slow motion aren't new, they aren't around in the last 2 years or 5 years, its been common for donkeys years now. THe only really newer thing which has been a few years is the added lines for offside, which frankly anyone with any dept perception can see offsides the same as before anyway.

I'm not sure that is has been getting worse. If anything, I find it astounding how often the referees are right. Having played many sports I'm used to 'amateur' refs getting far far far more decisions wrong than you see in most televised football games.
 
Every so often you'll see a display that is decent - and it'll stick out like a sore thumb because the ref wasn't the centre of attention and didn't want to be.

Absolutely agree.

I've regularly played many matches where the ref has made an outrageous decision. I've gone over and had my rant, been told to calm down, carded whatever. But occasionally after the game I've had a ref come up to me and apologise and admit to getting a decision wrong.

Now admittedly I don't play in a situation anywhere near the pressure of Premier League Football, and so its probably a lot easier for a ref to admit fault.

But as a player it makes a huge difference to know that someone is prepared to admit their mistakes and apologise, rather than hide behind the fact that 'the referee is always right', and just continue to lord it around in the middle of the park, game after game.
 
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