Is Sarah Palin just stupid?

No, he has advocated diplomatic relations as an alternative to warfare:


CHICAGO, Oct. 31 — Senator Barack Obama says he would “engage in aggressive personal diplomacy” with Iran if elected president and would offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek “regime change” if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues.

In an hourlong interview on Wednesday, Mr. Obama made clear that forging a new relationship with Iran would be a major element of a broad effort to stabilize Iraq as he executed a speedy timetable for the withdrawal of American combat troops.

Source.

In 2004 he said that the US should not rule out the possibility of surgical strikes against Iran and Pakistan if this became necessary to prevent extremists acquiring nuclear weapons. He may still hold that view; he may have abandoned it. Either way, it is still not the position you represent him as holding.

LOL, a year ago he was PROMISING to pull out of Iraq the day he got in charge, 6 months ago he changed to say he would hopefully be fully out of Iraq by 2010/2011, he was promising a lot of things a year ago that are completely and utterly contradicted by what he's saying now. He is a naive little child, as I've said. He came out and promised what he would do if the world was at complete peace, all racism, hatred and anger dissappeared overnight and how he would make it a blissful society, he's since realised he's a moron and changed almost every last one of his promises.

Quoting me something from a year ago, that DOES NOT SAY HE WON'T BOMB IRAN AT ALL, is about the most pointless thing you could back up your point with.

I'm sorry but, has Bush bombed Iran yet? Or has he been going the political route with UN inspectors, i forget. All republicans start wars on a whim with no care, and never ever talk or negotiate................... right.................. as proven by their repeated attacks on Iran.................


He has supported, and WRITEN bills whereby the group in Iran is named a terrorist group, and yes, EVERYONE who was involved all said they'd go the diplomatic route first, incase you didn't know. They are already putting on lots of pressure with massive trade restrictions. this is not a Obama only plan, everything he promises to do before bombing Iran, is everything currently being done, by a republican government, and is something McCain and Bush support.

Nukes are one thing, the massive army the Iranians are building is another, they support other terrorist groups and live next door to a very weakened Iraq who would be a relatively easy target for invasion once there is a full withdrawal from Iraq of all US/UK forces.


I don't think BUsh or McCain are great, but this ridiculous view based on Obama's broken promises from a year ago, which aren't his own plans but government plans that have been inplay for years already without his help. Its like, just because people think Bush is an idiot(he is, but he's not in power remember) they think one, he's done nothing right, and two that somehow everything will change when Obama comes in. That might be down to his whole campaign being about 85% the word "change" but half the idea's he have, are already going on. He's a joke.
 
Drunkenmaster, how can you actually support the Republicans mate? It doesn't make any sense? You must see that they are incapable of sorting out the problems we currently have. Just look at Palin giving a speech, it's easy to see she is as crazy as she looks and McCain's not going to be about for much longer. It's people like you who keep these crazy people in power and it's us who then have to suffer.
 
Where did he says this?


Wrong.


Oh no a big army! No wait America has a large army, as does China, as does Russia - why can they have large armies and Iran can't?


Who sees the Iranian army as a terrorist army?


What actual reason is there to bomb Iran?


You can't scientifically disprove God, you can creationism.


Not quite yet she's not and hopefully she never will be.


Have you seen how old McCain is?

Ok, Obama has signed bills naming their army a terrorist group, this IS his view, you can argue it all you want but the entire world believes this group to be a terrorist group, you can pretend that isn't true all you want.

Oh no its a big army, no its a big army the entire world, and Obama thinks is a terrorist organisation, supporting other terrorist groups that he's said needs to be handled some how, that is easily big enough to take over Iraq should we leave any time soon.

Again all of your points that don't reflect reality, there is a group, massive funded, growing larger, with lots of weapons and we shockingly don't want them to distabilise the region by invading countries, shocking, truly shocking.

I don't care if you can't scientifically disprove their being a god, there still isn't one and I did say it was MY VIEW that they are both as ridiculous as each other, let me guess, my own personal opinion is wrong, ok, let me know what my opinion should be, please.

McCain is old, but we're living in a world where people actually live significantly past his current age, infact old rich white american life expectancy with private health care in the US, he could easily live for another 30 years. If he was running for president of Ethopia or somewhere with a normal life expectancy of say, 50, then its an issue. As I said, there truly is a very good chance that Obama could be shot at, almost every president has attempts made on their lives, just most don't get at all close. But again, she will be being advised, and basically being controlled by the same people who'd advise anyone else who became president, its a figure head, or spokes person, for a bunch of people who generally know what they are doing, McCain, Obama, Palin, biden in charge, the likely outcome of any given situation is likely to be very similar no matter which is in charge.
 
He is a naive little child, as I've said.
Good argument

He came out and promised what he would do if the world was at complete peace, all racism, hatred and anger dissappeared overnight and how he would make it a blissful society, he's since realised he's a moron and changed almost every last one of his promises.
Or could it be that changing times call for changing plans?

I'm sorry but, has Bush bombed Iran yet?
The US army is so over stretched due to him declaring war against both Afghanistan and Iraq that not even he's stupid enough to fight three wars at once.

All republicans start wars on a whim with no care, and never ever talk or negotiate...................
What was the reason for going in to Iraq again?

Nukes are one thing, the massive army the Iranians are building is another,
You didn't answer my point - why can other countries have large armies and Iran can't?

they support other terrorist groups
Actual proof of that?

and live next door to a very weakened Iraq who would be a relatively easy target for invasion once there is a full withdrawal from Iraq of all US/UK forces.
There was already an Iraq-Iran war in case your history is week - I doubt they'll want to do that again. Why say that they'd invade Iraq in any case - what hints have they given that they would do this. You might as well say they're going to invade the Isle of White.. What would Iran do with Iraq? Have you seen Iran, now Iraq's been bombed into a third world country Iran looks positively palatial in comparison - it is absolutely a modern country.
 
Drunkenmaster, how can you actually support the Republicans mate? It doesn't make any sense? You must see that they are incapable of sorting out the problems we currently have. Just look at Palin giving a speech, it's easy to see she is as crazy as she looks and McCain's not going to be about for much longer. It's people like you who keep these crazy people in power and it's us who then have to suffer.

Well done for reading nothing I've writen, seriously, job well done. As I've said, I don't particularly think either side is even close to up to the job in general terms, but when you take into account that, they really are figure heads in the last 2 decades, it will make very little overall difference whose in charge, and hald the senate/congress won't want to work with Obama he simply won't get anything major done. Because he'll oppose big business on everything he'll get no support for anything he wants.

The main power a president has is being able to veto bill's. He can kill any bill, but he CAN NOT pass anything he wants, he has to have the majority support. If he kills everything as he seems intent on doing he will have no support at all for anything deemed as "good". Everything he wants is pie in the sky crap that will never happen.

Care to tell me what makes him credible when he's changed most of his major goals and promises throughout the campaign and alienated half of congress?
 
LOL, a year ago he was PROMISING to pull out of Iraq the day he got in charge, 6 months ago he changed to say he would hopefully be fully out of Iraq by 2010/2011, he was promising a lot of things a year ago that are completely and utterly contradicted by what he's saying now. He is a naive little child, as I've said. He came out and promised what he would do if the world was at complete peace, all racism, hatred and anger dissappeared overnight and how he would make it a blissful society, he's since realised he's a moron and changed almost every last one of his promises.

I am going to ignore this because (a) it is unsubstantiated, (b) it is a blatant rant, and (c) it seems to border on the irrational.

Quoting me something from a year ago, that DOES NOT SAY HE WON'T BOMB IRAN AT ALL, is about the most pointless thing you could back up your point with.

I'm afraid you can't wriggle out of it that easily. You claimed he was going to bomb Iran, so the burden of proof lies with you - not with me. So where's your proof? You don't have any.

I'm sorry but, has Bush bombed Iran yet? Or has he been going the political route with UN inspectors, i forget. All republicans start wars on a whim with no care, and never ever talk or negotiate................... right.................. as proven by their repeated attacks on Iran.................

What's Bush got to do with this discussion? Nothing that I can see. :confused:

He has supported, and WRITEN bills whereby the group in Iran is named a terrorist group, and yes, EVERYONE who was involved all said they'd go the diplomatic route first, incase you didn't know. They are already putting on lots of pressure with massive trade restrictions. this is not a Obama only plan, everything he promises to do before bombing Iran, is everything currently being done, by a republican government, and is something McCain and Bush support.

Nukes are one thing, the massive army the Iranians are building is another, they support other terrorist groups and live next door to a very weakened Iraq who would be a relatively easy target for invasion once there is a full withdrawal from Iraq of all US/UK forces.

If you think the West is going to invade Iran while they can't even control Iraq and Afghanistan and their armies are stretch to near-breaking point, I can only conclude that you must be clinically insane.

I don't think BUsh or McCain are great, but this ridiculous view based on Obama's broken promises from a year ago, which aren't his own plans but government plans that have been inplay for years already without his help. Its like, just because people think Bush is an idiot(he is, but he's not in power remember) they think one, he's done nothing right, and two that somehow everything will change when Obama comes in. That might be down to his whole campaign being about 85% the word "change" but half the idea's he have, are already going on. He's a joke.

OK, you hate Obama. We got that.

My purpose was to argue that he has not advocated bombing Iran (as you claimed) but has in fact advocated improving diplomatic relations and rewarding Iran for peaceful progress. I have fulfilled that purpose, while you have completely failed to substantiate your own claims.
 


Honestly, yes changing times call for changing plans, however his plan to pull out of Iraq immediately was crap at THAT time, NOthing has changed significantly, his plan now just matches that of everyone else's who have all had the same plan all along. It shows nothing except he's naive on how everything works, thought it was possible and has since found out its not. It was maybe his single biggest campaign promise/idea to start with and an idea people seem to think makes him a hippy who would never go to war or hurt anyone. However he's completely changed his mind.

I prefer the people who knew the reality and didn't make false promises and knew the situation before they made a promise to the guy who has no clue whats going on, changes his mind every 5 minutes, won't get any help from anyone and has made nothing but empty promises. its almost as bad as giving a tax rebate on borrowed money before an upcoming election to make people vote for them.

ALmost nothing he's promised is possible, literally almost everything he "wants" to happen is not a slim chance, or he might get lucky, just not possible.

Again, Obama, himself has supported bills that describe the Iranian army as a terrorist organisation who support other terrorist groups, a bill signed and passed in the house that most people agree with the facts of. Yes it IS a problem that a terrorist army gets very big, if you can't see that theres very little chance.

No, my history isn't "WEEK", nor weak, I know there was a previous war. Hmm, now whats that thing lots of wars are started over, hatred, revenge, anger, can't think of anything at all Iran have to be angry at Iraq for, nothing springs to mind at all. Not to mention that previously Iraq were stronger, not just demolised by the joint UK/US forces, and that Iran are significantly, massively more powerful in numbers/firepower than they were. Iraq would have very little with which to "attack" Iran, should they go on the fighting would be in Iraq, not Iran, and frankly, they'd be a complete pushover.
 
Ok, Obama has signed bills naming their army a terrorist group, this IS his view,
Like to name those bills?

you can argue it all you want but the entire world believes this group to be a terrorist group, you can pretend that isn't true all you want.
I think you'll find I'm part of this world and I don't view them as a terrorist group. Has the EU passed any sort of legislation or in any way signalled them as a terrorist group. Has Australia done so? Has China done so?

that is easily big enough to take over Iraq should we leave any time soon.
The Chinese army is also big enough to take over a defenceless Iraq, as is the Italian army. What signs are there that Iran wants to take over Iraq - why would it want to?

I don't care if you can't scientifically disprove their being a god, there still isn't one
Atheism may be your religion, but you must realise that Atheism is just large a leap of faith as Theism.

McCain is old, but we're living in a world where people actually live significantly past his current age, infact old rich white american life expectancy with private health care in the US, he could easily live for another 30 years.
Equally he could die tomorrow - that's why they have VP's and that's why they're important and worth investigating.
 
You are so Republican and anti-Democrat! It's so obvious to see mate. No matter what, you will always find something bad to say about Obama, I just don't get how you can be so much for McCain and Palin. You keep coming out with things that Obama said and did not say but I have yet to hear you say a good thing about the Republicans to support why you like them so much.
 
I am going to ignore this because (a) it is unsubstantiated, (b) it is a blatant rant, and (c) it seems to border on the irrational.

I do truly hate your argument style, I'll ignore what I want, ignore other points and pretend I have to prove nothing. Except you claimed, or worded your question to me as an assumption that your "quote" proved he would not bomb Iran, which it did not, which is all I said.

I didn't say the "west" should invade Iran either, again you're adding things in I never said to make your point, try reading what I write, rather than the bits you add inbetween. I don't think anyone wants to invade Iran, crippling their Army doesn't require an invasion, surgical strikes of their miltary bases, forces and arms depo's does not require an invasion. This IS something the west is fully capable of with little Iran could do to retaliate to be honest.

Its not quite perfect but, to remove the head of the beast like Saddam, capture him and keep all of the next in lines out of power, you tend to need to invade to instill full scale change on the country. to simply cripple an army and bases with no intention of removing those in power, nor installing a new government you do not need to invade.

As for bringing Bush into it, I was merely making a point that Obama has said he thinks more diplomatic measures are due first. In this argument of who should win the election, I was merely pointing out that a Republican, who could indeed bomb Iran now is infact still esculating the political side of things first, which is the step Obama wants to take. Just another point that the republicans, and the democrats are handling it the way the other side would handle it. I don't remember quoting you before bringing bush into it, nor stating you did. Arguing you didn't then becomes a little pointless and childish. However thats how you like to argue on forums, argue the points no one ever made, and systematically ignore things you don't like the sound of.
 
You are so Republican and anti-Democrat! It's so obvious to see mate. No matter what, you will always find something bad to say about Obama, I just don't get how you can be so much for McCain and Palin. You keep coming out with things that Obama said and did not say but I have yet to hear you say a good thing about the Republicans to support why you like them so much.

You couldn't be more wrong, the problem is, you see Obama as the democrats and McCain as the republican, I see two guys that will make all the same major decisions, all the same foreign policy decisions and neither will pass anything significant or world changing in their time in office. YOu don't seem to listen, to be republican I would need to agree with their views, I don't, well I'm sure some I do and most I don't. I'm incredibly liberal actually but I'm not stupid.

A liberal with no support will get NOTHING done, a extreme right winger(McCain is far from extreme) will still, by virtue of everyone being different have some liberal views, someone who works with big business might, just might get some nice things passed that I do agree with.

One guy who I agree with completely but has NO CHANCE AT ALL of getting anything done, or one guy who I mostly disagree with but has a slim chance of getting some good things done. Thats why I don't want Obama in power. If the world was different, if congress wasn't bought by big business and if everything Obama wants to happen could be done I'd vote for him in a second, but we don't live in that happy fair world, not even anywhere close to it.
 
The Chinese army is also big enough to take over a defenceless Iraq, as is the Italian army. What signs are there that Iran wants to take over Iraq - why would it want to?

Atheism may be your religion, but you must realise that Atheism is just large a leap of faith as Theism.

Equally he could die tomorrow - that's why they have VP's and that's why they're important and worth investigating.


Why do Pakistan and India hate each other but not the Aussies, why does Isreal fight the Palistinians but not Scotland, why did north/south Korea fight. Because there is existing bad blood, decades/centuries/millenia of hate. Why would Iran fighting Iraq be more likely than China going in, you don't need an answer you know the answer you're just being overly argumentative for the sake of it.

Atheism is not my religion, my leap of faith is not just as large as those who believe in god and again, its MY opinion that creationism is just as ridiculous as christianity or any other religion, no different at all so that argument really doesn't come into it, they are all as equally deluded and there isn't a candidate up there claiming gods a joke so theres no alternative in that sense so the argument becomes null and void to me, and you essentially asked me if I didn't think creationism was more ridiculous, I said no you really can't change my mind on that one thanks.

AS for McCain, sure he could die tomorrow, so could Palin in that sense, so could Obama and Biden, then whose in charge. We can deal in what if's, but what if the Uk get peeved with both sides and nuke them before they get put in charge, that point could really take us anywhere. Under any normal measure he is healthy right now, doesn't have a fast degenerative disease and theres no reason to think he'll die in the next 4 years, he's older thats it, Obama could have a heart attack tomorrow.

Biden has had TWO brain aneurysm's pop, and isn't exactly a healthy guy himself, Obama is the prime target to be shot by all of the racists in America, whose in charge after those two.
 
Because there is existing bad blood, decades/centuries/millenia of hate.
Explain why Iran would want to attack Iraq. Just because there is bad blood is hardly a reason. There is bad blood between the US and Russia, but they wont go to war. There is bad blood between the US and Mexico but there wont be a war. Exactly what reason have the Iranian's for wanting to attack Iraq - you've just stated they will without giving any reason or backing it up with any facts.

Atheism is not my religion, my leap of faith is not just as large as those who believe in god and again, its MY opinion that creationism is just as ridiculous as christianity or any other religion, no different at all so that argument really doesn't come into it, they are all as equally deluded and there isn't a candidate up there claiming gods a joke so theres no alternative in that sense so the argument becomes null and void to me, and you essentially asked me if I didn't think creationism was more ridiculous, I said no you really can't change my mind on that one thanks.
How can you say that all religion is all equally deluded and no be an Atheist? That certainly would not be the standpoint of an Agnostic.

AS for McCain, sure he could die tomorrow, so could Palin in that sense, so could Obama and Biden, then whose in charge.
Yes everyone could suddenly die, but lets put some credibility into this argument. VPs are elected based on their suitability to replace the president if he died. For that reason alone their suitability to run America should be assesed. If your job description is pretty much 'president in waiting' you should be able to fulfil that description well. Palin cannot.
 
*snip* the problem is, you see Obama as the democrats and McCain as the republican, I see two guys that will make all the same major decisions, all the same foreign policy decisions and neither will pass anything significant or world changing in their time in office. *snip*

A liberal with no support will get NOTHING done, a extreme right winger(McCain is far from extreme) will still, by virtue of everyone being different have some liberal views, someone who works with big business might, just might get some nice things passed that I do agree with.

One guy who I agree with completely but has NO CHANCE AT ALL of getting anything done, or one guy who I mostly disagree with but has a slim chance of getting some good things done. *snip*
Best post so far, dm.
 
Just had a quick read on Creationists - are they for real? I feel embarrassed for them all! :rolleyes:

They are very much for real. They are also continually trying to get creationism taught in schools as if it was an alternative theory to evolution, both in the USA and in the UK. It's a clever move - abusing science to lever in religion. Then there's "creationism in a new coat", intelligent design. ID is creationism with the pretence of not naming the creator (although it's always the same one as with creationism).
 
They are very much for real. They are also continually trying to get creationism taught in schools as if it was an alternative theory to evolution, both in the USA and in the UK. It's a clever move - abusing science to lever in religion. Then there's "creationism in a new coat", intelligent design. ID is creationism with the pretence of not naming the creator (although it's always the same one as with creationism).

frankly, they teach religion in schools already, its seems nuts to teach some but not others. It reeks of, "our groups is funded massively more than yours, so we get what we want" to be honest. No religion should be taught in schools at all.

http://www.barackobama.com/2008/06/04/remarks_of_senator_barack_obam_74.php

Its not the best link, but he repeatedly says and has been for years that Iran is the single biggest threat to world peace.

"He criticizes my willingness to use strong diplomacy, but offers only an alternate reality – one where the war in Iraq has somehow put Iran on its heels. The truth is the opposite. Iran has strengthened its position. Iran is now enriching uranium, and has reportedly stockpiled 150 kilos of low enriched uranium. Its support for terrorism and threats toward Israel have increased. Those are the facts, they cannot be denied, and I refuse to continue a policy that has made the United States and Israel less secure. "

He's essentially saying McCain wants to stay in Iraq for ever(not true) and by staying there we prevent Iran from invading Iraq. Obama(as I've been saying) in his own words keeps claiming Iran are the biggest threat in the world right now, are terrorists, support terrorists are stockpiling nuclear material and that somehow continuing the sancations currently imposed(theres basically nothing at this point more than can do to sanction them) will suddenly completely change their mind. They have money, they are doing well, they are growing they are building weapons and have a massive, simply massive army growing while under very harsh economic sanctions. The world has been negotiating with them for decades, and nothing has happened. He says in his speaches that military action is the last step and is NOT off the table but diplomacy comes first. this is what Bush, McCain, clinton, Blair and everyone else has been saying for 10 years.

Obama clearly thinks there is a big risk of Iraq becoming a terrorist hub when they pull out but thinks its a great idea anyway. he thinks because he talks directly with Iran and tells them the holocaust happens they will make a significant U-turn when the rest of the world has already tried. He's simply playing down the realities of what will happen no matter whose in charge.

I'm trying to track down his latest date for final withdrawal, but in the same speach a year before(speach to the same group) he claimed they would start a systematic withdrawal by March(and no later than May) 2008. Yes folks, he wanted to have the army removed before he got into power, so a country he catagorically states is trying to get nukes, IS stockpiling nuclear material, IS gaining massive strength, IS the greatest threat to the world right now, IS the greatest threat to Isreal, IS lead by a evil git who wants to kill people, IS supporting terrorist groups and thinks telling them to please not to will work, just as well as its worked for the past decade.

He's a twit, he's either naive, or he's simply playing down the fact that they will have to act militarily, its most likely the later. But he's just playing into the groups that pay the best frankly. He started off saying everything exactly as the biggest campaign activists wanted to hear and then got record funding for his campaign. once his funding was secure his message started to change a LOT.
 
They are very much for real. They are also continually trying to get creationism taught in schools as if it was an alternative theory to evolution, both in the USA and in the UK.
Unless something has changed, it isn't taught in Public US schools, only Private. I thought there were laws against that here.


edit: it appears something has changed. They now call it "Intelligent Design" and has been in use in Public schools since 2004. Very interesting. They do seem to separate it from the Bible, though.
 
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DM, to save finding the relevant bits of your posts to quote, I'll just address some of your points:

1) The US has done the whole 'go it alone' thing with Iraq, and where did that get them? 98% (or whatever the number was) of world leaders may well agree with dealing with Iran's army, but you don't get that 98% on your side by insulting them.

2) You have made repeated remarks about Obama's comments about pulling out of Iraq. Remember the whole "the war is over" debacle from Bush? Republican and Democrat alike have made ridiculous claims over the war, and both have been proven wrong. Worse still, Bush was actually in office at the time. If you're going to claim that the president doesn't pull the levers, then McCain is just as liable to fall into that trap as Bush and Obama. You can't have it both ways.

3) Creationism, and it's ill-gotten sister Intelligent Design, look centuries of science in the face, and laugh. 4,000 year-old dinosaurs? WTF. What's with all this radio carbon dating then?

4) Power or no power, the VP *is* a figurehead, second only to the president. In the last week alone she's accused a fellow Senator of consorting with terrorists, and rattled the sabre in Iraq's face. I'd have a lot more respect for her if she admitted that she doesn't have all the answers yet, instead of attempting to invent something on the spur of the moment and immediately looking like a stupid fool. 'What newspapers have you read?' isn't a particularly difficult question to answer. If she can't deal with that one, I dread to think of what she'd do in a meeting with a foreign power.
 

hey u shut up

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DM, to save finding the relevant bits of your posts to quote, I'll just address some of your points:

1) The US has done the whole 'go it alone' thing with Iraq, and where did that get them? 98% (or whatever the number was) of world leaders may well agree with dealing with Iran's army, but you don't get that 98% on your side by insulting them.

2) You have made repeated remarks about Obama's comments about pulling out of Iraq. Remember the whole "the war is over" debacle from Bush? Republican and Democrat alike have made ridiculous claims over the war, and both have been proven wrong. Worse still, Bush was actually in office at the time. If you're going to claim that the president doesn't pull the levers, then McCain is just as liable to fall into that trap as Bush and Obama. You can't have it both ways.

3) Creationism, and it's ill-gotten sister Intelligent Design, look centuries of science in the face, and laugh. 4,000 year-old dinosaurs? WTF. What's with all this radio carbon dating then?

4) Power or no power, the VP *is* a figurehead, second only to the president. In the last week alone she's accused a fellow Senator of consorting with terrorists, and rattled the sabre in Iraq's face. I'd have a lot more respect for her if she admitted that she doesn't have all the answers yet, instead of attempting to invent something on the spur of the moment and immediately looking like a stupid fool. 'What newspapers have you read?' isn't a particularly difficult question to answer. If she can't deal with that one, I dread to think of what she'd do in a meeting with a foreign power.


people reading what they want into my posts, except in ALL of them I say there will simply be NO difference in the way any leader would deal with any of these. I can't have it one way but not the other, thats correct, thats why I claim the same for all of them ;)

I'm not really sure what you mean about the go it alone thing. Iran, the sanctions and diplomatic talks have been ongoing for over a decade, multiple VERY experienced world leaders have tried talking it over and repeatedly get told to smeg off, sure they let inspectors in now and then, thats only useful for inspecting firstly the area's they let us inspect, and secondly the area's we can ask to see that we know about. Obama's claim is the inteligence he has is they have 150kg of uranium stockpiled, not exactly working is it. The Iran thing hasn't been going it alone at any stage. Obama's thinking seems to be pull out of Iraq and hope his vast experience somehow bears more fruit than dozens of worldwide leaders with decades more experience sometimes. Its either completely naive or he's just saying what the public want to hear for votes. Neither would surprise me however its probably the later.

The point is everything he wants to do is being done, has been being done and has been ongoing, he says the next option after serious sanctions and talking is military and he won't rule it out but has a go at McCain for saying the same thing and having a go at Bush for not doing it, when he has been. The thing that does get to me about Obama is he acts like he's the only one who wants to talk, like they aren't doing it now and that somehow due to his vast experience of dealing with people who repeatedly threaten to wipe Isreal from the face of the planet, that somehow his talks will work better. Again stupid, or saying what people want to hear in a perfect world.

The simple fact is Obama and McCain both think Iraq could become infested with terrorists the second they leave but Obama wants to do it quicker, with no backup plan and hope that Iran will listen to him, its possibly the stupidest thing he could ever do to be quite honest.


As for Palin, plenty of VP's have been all but pushed completely aside once the ballot is finished. She can be shipped off to deal with negotiations with Iceland and their whale culling. Either she's stupid , flat out stupid in which case I really do think they'd just ship her off on long, important but ultimately time wasting talks with inconsequential countries, or her people are clever and simply trying to win all the redneck, racist and average joe votes and she'll be vastly different once in office. Again either is possible, a politician who says one thing to get in power and then completely changes, theres always a first time i guess ;)


Just to reiterated, I don't think McCain would be massively better than Obama, nor do I support everything he "promises" , but as in a previous post, its about someone maybe getting some minor good things going on, vs a guy who the world might love but congress and the senate refuse to support getting nothing at all done. The only true power a president has is the veto, and its power is all but gone, if you don't let the other side pass stuff, they shoot down all of yours anyway. Its always negotiation, you get abstinance talks in school and we get some funding for, hell, i don't know, some condom machines in schools.


But the way it is, and the way people change once in power, Obama might turn into a military nut job once elected or McCain might become a hippy, broken election promises is pretty much the staple of politics and has been for centuries. On a world scale though, is McCain or Obama being in power more likely to deter say Russia from re-invading Georgia, or China doing worse in the Sudan, or Iran launching an attack on Israel or Iraq. Remember, the appearance that you will use force can be more effective, infact is more effective in world politics than actually using force. The appearance you'd avoid any conflict at all costs is also going to encourage a lot of countries to take a lot of liberties. World peace is an admirable goal, but until the rest of the world is ready and wants it, it does you no good to try and achieve it and we are no where near ready for world peace yet.

Also, within what, seconds of Palin being nominated the trash talk about her sick child was being throw about, and you can guess which party was behind that. Both parties are guilty of lying, talking crap, having people who contridict themselves and they are as bad as each other, though I think its fair to say the dirt on Palin appeared before they started throwing mud this time(i'm under no impression they wouldn't have done it anyway at some point).

I'd also say that while the VP is officially the 2nd in command, and 1st in line to take over, assuming McCain doesn't die she would be far, far away from being the 2nd in command in terms of power. Frankly the leader of the house, and a half dozen other people(normally from the opposite side) have much much much much more influence anyway. Its quite possible that all 4 of them, no matter who actually wins the election will be in influencial positions anyway.
 
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