Distributing software created at uni - copyright etc

DiscoDave

DiscoDave

DiscoDave

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Hey all,

Obviously this isn't probably the best place to ask questions on this topic, but im sure someone can probably help or at least point me in the right direction.

During my final year of university I produced an application, I won't bore you all with the specific details but I'm thinking about exploiting it commercially (ie selling it).

I've e-mailed the uni regarding if they would have any influence on this and the reply i got was:

The University’s default position is that where an undergraduate or postgraduate taught student has developed IP that can be commercialised, the student owns the IP. For this reason, the University will not normally seek at enrolment to secure the assignment of undergraduate or postgraduate taught student IP.
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Full document here - http://www.tees.ac.uk/docs/DocRepo/...w/Intellectual Property Policy - Students.doc

I've interpreted this as because I created it, I can do what I wish with it and the uni won't have a stake in any potential profits or anything (please correct me if im wrong) although my tutor told me they could provide funding for me.

I'm teaming up with a friend whom i lived with at uni, an excellent programmer as programming isn't anything I would do for a living, but will do as part of a hobby or side project.

This friend of mine is currently doing his masters, but is very enthusiastic with working on this project during his studies. I need to send him the source code, but I want protection that he doesn't release it to other sources. It's not a matter of trust, I'm just very cautious person by nature and want to keep things professional.

Would the best way to do this is get a non-disclosure agreement for both of us to sign? If so, could I just obtain a template and tailor it to this specification, or do I have to approach a lawyer of some kind to make it all leagally binding?

Thanks,

David
 
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Usually, non-research students are not forced into surrendering IP, but it really depends uni by uni, sometimes even case by case.

I'd personally say consult someone more in the know. Last thing you want is a lawsuite.
 
i'm no lawyer but :)

you're a student, right.
you're not an employee.

you are paying them to provide you with an education.

i can't see how they could have a claim to the IP of your creations.

unless of course you were to pursue and subsequently take up funding from them.
and maybe you should consider that. many uni's are on the ball at setting up spin off companies.
 
If I'm reading that right, some of that statement applies to existing IP at enrolment, so at least the last part wouldn't apply in this instance.

Unis can and often do claim a stake in IP created on their time using their hardware, but will often allow non-commercial use. If you did it all on your own equipment then you might stand a better chance.
 
Berserker said:
If I'm reading that right, some of that statement applies to existing IP at enrolment, so at least the last part wouldn't apply in this instance.

Unis can and often do claim a stake in IP created on their time using their hardware, but will often allow non-commercial use. If you did it all on your own equipment then you might stand a better chance.
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Well the uni have a purpose built networks lab which i used frequently and they also put windows Vista on a VMware setup for me, so they did supply me with some resources.
 
DiscoDave said:
Well the uni have a purpose built networks lab which i used frequently and they also put windows Vista on a VMware setup for me, so they did supply me with some resources.
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Lawyer time. I'd consult your uni first though - they do this all the time.

Ultimately they WANT you to make loads of money. Spin out companies are mutually beneficial.
 
The uni does hold rights to your work. However they wouldnt stop you exploiting it commercially because:

A: It isnt in their interests to effectively try and rob students of their own work. This would put other students off and give them a bad press.

B: they arnt in the business of trying to make profit from their students work.

The rights they hold would simply entitle them to use your work as part of advertising for the uni/leaflets/website, any other media that may help bring in students. EG: "look at this rich/important guy, he came to our Uni and so could you"

Having said that it would be sensible to speak to someone at the uni to clarify things and if needed put together some sort of legal document.
 
r44b said:
The uni does hold rights to your work. However they wouldnt stop you exploiting it commercially because:

A: It isnt in their interests to effectively try and rob students of their own work. This would put other students off and give them a bad press.

B: they arnt in the business of trying to make profit from their students work.

The rights they hold would simply entitle them to use your work as part of advertising for the uni/leaflets/website, any other media that may help bring in students. EG: "look at this rich/important guy, he came to our Uni and so could you"

Having said that it would be sensible to speak to someone at the uni to clarify things and if needed put together some sort of legal document.
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.... yes, but universities are businesses! They would almost certainly want a share of the profits :)
 
It Isn't in their interests at all to take profit from something a student has done.
I know this because they told me.
 
NDA is the way to go if you want to protect it. Template would be fine then editing it to your requirements.

As far as I'm aware, no lawyer is needed. I've signed one and I believe it's held by the company to say you agreed to everything in the NDA.
 
Their profits come from other organisation and businesses that pay them to produce top quality staff - not software. I know of at least 3 people who've gone on to use code produced at Uni go on to sell commercially.

You pay them to provide you with an education - that means they have to provide learning tools, etc. Just because it's their equipment, doesn't mean what you developed on their equipment is theirs. If that were true, then MS would have their lawyers crawling over every app ever developed within the Windows environment. I don't believe you signed any form of NDA when you started your course, nor did you sign away any IP in advance... and if you did, the University would need more lawyers than lecturers.

Until the time comes that they specifically draft a document asking for you to sign-off IP against your work, then it's yours. After all, possession is still 9/10ths of the law.
 
I'm probably the perfect person to answer this question given that I deal with exactly what you're talking about most days of the week (IP for universities).

To answer the issue of your existing IP: every university has a different policy on this. The universities that require prospective assignment of IP put such a term in their contract with you upon enrolment. Some will want a percentage of profit, whilst others ask for full assignment (mostly in the case of research assistants though). This may be drawn down from their existing obligations (for example in an FP7 consortium) or may simply be because universities now make significant amounts of capital through such activities (not to mention that it helps fulfil the university's charitable mission of spreading knowledge).

To answer the second question. You will want an NDA with him. Whilst there are laws protecting confidentiality generally you're in a far better situation with an NDA. You wont need it witnessed by a lawyer though you will need to be careful. There are several things you can do to make the whole thing fall apart if you're not careful.

Is your friend at the same uni? If he's not you'll have to be careful to check the status of your friend's right to IP if he's currently doing his masters. If he is, is it a taught masters or research based?

I'll go as far as to look over any NDA you put together for you and give you some tips if you like - but I'm afraid I wont be writing it for you - otherwise I'd never earn any money!
 
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Poweredge said:
Their profits come from other organisation and businesses that pay them to produce top quality staff - not software.
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This is naive. Universities have been, and are being, paid millions to produce software.

Poweredge said:
Just because it's their equipment, doesn't mean what you developed on their equipment is theirs.
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Correct, but often universities craft student's contracts in that way. I'd point out that if you worked for a university even software that you create at home outside of work is technically the property of the university.

Poweredge said:
if you did, the University would need more lawyers than lecturers.
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Universities usually have two separate departments just to deal with intellectual property and contracts dealing with such.

Poweredge said:
Until the time comes that they specifically draft a document asking for you to sign-off IP against your work, then it's yours.
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Wrong, you can, and most contracts dealing with IP usually do, prospectively assign IP.

Poweredge said:
After all, possession is still 9/10ths of the law.
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This is an oft-quoted load of rubbish. Possession, especially with IP, makes little difference.
 
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Your uni's policy is quite generous. My undergrad work at Durham was owned by the uni. After I finished at uni, I lost some of the code I wrote which would have helped me with another project I was working on. I e-mailed the uni to ask for a copy, and they said that while they did still have it, they couldn't give it back to me.
 
fini said:
I'm probably the perfect person to answer this question given that I deal with exactly what you're talking about most days of the week (IP for universities).

To answer the issue of your existing IP: every university has a different policy on this. The universities that require prospective assignment of IP put such a term in their contract with you upon enrolment. Some will want a percentage of profit, whilst others ask for full assignment (mostly in the case of research assistants though). This may be drawn down from their existing obligations (for example in an FP7 consortium) or may simply be because universities now make significant amounts of capital through such activities (not to mention that it helps fulfil the university's charitable mission of spreading knowledge).

To answer the second question. You will want an NDA with him. Whilst there are laws protecting confidentiality generally you're in a far better situation with an NDA. You wont need it witnessed by a lawyer though you will need to be careful. There are several things you can do to make the whole thing fall apart if you're not careful.

Is your friend at the same uni? If he's not you'll have to be careful to check the status of your friend's right to IP if he's currently doing his masters. If he is, is it a taught masters or research based?

I'll go as far as to look over any NDA you put together for you and give you some tips if you like - but I'm afraid I wont be writing it for you - otherwise I'd never earn any money!
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Hi there,

Well I've read through the IP document that I linked to in my original post, but I guess it couldn't hurt to get some clarification. So i'll send another e-mail just to confirm. My friend is at the same uni and he's doing a taught masters.

Thanks, I'll try and whip up a NDA and see what I can come up with :)

David
 
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