Why doesn't Unlimited mean Unlimited anymore? :/

[Dolph]

Do you run an ISP? Because it seems that the ISP's also believe that only people breaking the law have large data transfers. Which, as we know, is an idiotic belief.

No, although I can tell you the mobile phone example is genuine...

With the possibly exception of TV via the web, what other high bandwidth, day in day out downloads are legal? Online gaming doesn't use that much transfer, nor does your other earlier examples provide constant use of the level that would regularly breach a decent FUP (say 250-300gb a month). There isn't enough downloading in your list to max out a connection daily like most of those who complain about FUP's claim they do.

The list is also inconsistant for the vast majority of web users, which is what my statement was concerned with. I'll also point you to the use of e.g,, and the phrase 'significant majority'. Giving a means by which a tiny minority might not be covered by the strict statement does nothing to counter it.

 

[JIM_BOB7813]

I can't stand the whole "unlimited" thing, hope the ASA do something about it, it is really misleading.

 

[AtlanticP]

My 'So Called' unlimited broadband is in fact limited to 100gb according to BT. I have had it throttled back a few times, fair enough but I don't get any notification at all and just suddenly go to 512k from 8mb. Bloody annoying to be honest, but guess that's how it is.

 

[DampCat]

No, although I can tell you the mobile phone example is genuine...

With the possibly exception of TV via the web, what other high bandwidth, day in day out downloads are legal? Online gaming doesn't use that much transfer, nor does your other earlier examples provide constant use of the level that would regularly breach a decent FUP (say 250-300gb a month). There isn't enough downloading in your list to max out a connection daily like most of those who complain about FUP's claim they do.

The list is also inconsistant for the vast majority of web users, which is what my statement was concerned with. I'll also point you to the use of e.g,, and the phrase 'significant majority'. Giving a means by which a tiny minority might not be covered by the strict statement does nothing to counter it.

Indeed. I dont claim that i'm throttled every day. I AM throttled EVERY TIME i want to download a program, legitimately for that matter (anything after about 1gb in a day get's me throttled). I download a lot of music, legitimately, and i'm throttled then too. My point is that legitimate customers are capable of downloading the same amount as pirates, minority indeed but it's just another example of the people who play by the rules being punished for no reason. Torrenting is immediately throttled regardless of my daily usage. the 1.1gb WoW patch had an estimated 12 day download time. 12 days! really getting my money's worth out of my 20mb unlimited broadband there!

And you know, if i did set up a media PC based around iPlayer, a perfectly viable scenario (look how many people set up PC's to use Skype for free calls. Literally like everyone in my family has it) i could quite easily use an "unfair" amount of bandwith.

We can also do this without being condescending and patronising.

 

[Rich_L]

Your throttling sounds a bit, er, unusual - even when going over the limit and being capped my 20Mb Virgin connection still downloads at ~600k/s (c. 5Mb/s in line with their 75% reduction policy)

 

[peetee]

To be honest it seems like a huge step backwards, it took bloomin' ages in the days of dial up to get "unlimited bandwidth" back then, we finally got it... broadband becomes the norm and we're back on usage caps again.

If a company is saying I've got unlimited bandwidth, I bloody want unlimited bandwidth. Not one that means I'm going to get throttled during peak hours because I downloaded a gig or two the night before, not one that means I'm going to get charged extra next month because I went "over my unlimited limit" =/


Some recent bits and bobs from the BBC.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7684322.stm

If there wasnt throttling at busy times then we would have QoS problems.. its not really rocket science, we're all sharing bandwidth after all.

Im happy with virgins approach, iv never had any problems, yea its annoying sometimes that ill try a big download during peak times and ill get throttled, but then I wont be the one whinging if I decide to play a game because im lagging due to my ISP not throttling the leechers etc, and my webpages still load instantly at peak times etc.
Networks are not magical, they have their limits, granted some ISPs unlimited policys etc take the pee, but certain ISPs have approached it in a fair and rational way.

 

[Durzel]

Because the word "unlimited" means "unlimited bandwidth" in the eyes of consumers/warezers/leechers and "unlimited access" from the perspective of the ISP. Technically they aren't lying - you have unlimited access to the Internet 24/7/365 - it was you who assumed the word "unlimited" to relate to bandwidth consumption.

I work for an ISP (not a consumer one fortunately - I'd hate to have to deal with some of the niavity displayed in threads like this, people who pay £15 a month and expect to get uncontested leased line speeds 24/7) and I agree with Dolph for the most part. Normal users wouldn't even notice the cap, even with the hypothetical and oft stretched-to-breaking-point argument about legal usage like iPlayer, etc. The only people these caps tend to affect are the habitual pirates - I mean seriously who legitimately downloads 100GB a month? Don't tell me, it's redownloading Linux ISOs over and over...

 

[Fire Wizard]

Like what? Downloaded games off steam? Watching iPlayer? Downloading patches for World of Warcraft, WAR etc? Downloading digital purchases of Adobe Photoshop or Lightroom or Antivirus? Maybe downloading a few albums of itunes?

Hello DampCat, Internet Service Providers don't just start enforcing the fair usage policy for downloading the odd application software such as Adobe Photoshop, downloading patches for Massively multiplayer online role-playing games and downloading a few albums of itunes for example. Doing any of the above, including what you have said, ISPs wouldn't even think for a second that it's time to restrict you because in 99% of cases, you wouldn't be doing that on a day to day basis.

The Fair Usage Policy will only be enforced on you if you are downloading a massive amount of data on a daily basis and I can only think you will be doing that if you are doing illegal activities.

Download Purchases are more commonplace than ever before. Torrenting is perfectly legal and many companies use it as an official distribution method. On Virgin, my torrents are raped down to a lovely 2kb/sec. It's really "fair" because i am "doign things im not supposed to be

Have you got any evidence to show that companies use Torrenting as a legal method of distribution?

 

[peetee]

snip

are you talking out your **** or something because im constantly torrenting on virgin and barely ever get throttled, although im clever enough to turn the torrents off at peak time(as I think any reasonable person should...)
Your examples seem a little OTT and I for one do not believe a word you have just said.

 

[peetee]

Have you got any evidence to show that companies use Torrenting as a legal method of distribution?

Blizzard for WoW...
Lots of legal things on torrents, Im shocked you have even asked.
Users create their own content and upload, people make wallpapers etc, bands release music on torrents.
Linux distributions, various other opensource/freeware apps on torrents.

 

[V4NT0M]

Well if you look at it literally, at least at Orange where I work, it is unlimited, they don't stop you from downloading or limit your bandwidth, they just kick you off if you keep doing it.

So there is no limit to what you can download, but if you do go over it you will be kicked off. And it always says on all the adverts "subject to fair use policy".

So whilst it's misleading, anyone with a little common sense can figure out what package they're getting, also to consider is that 99% of people will never reach anywhere near that amount of transfer and on a domestic BB connection 99% of the people who do go over it are downloading illegal torrents anyway.

Have you got any evidence to show that companies use Torrenting as a legal method of distribution?

I can't name any off the bat, but many companies do.

 

[Shoseki]

They take the mickey, as do mobile phone companies. And they are milking it like no tomorrow.

 

[Fire Wizard]

Blizzard for WoW...
Lots of legal things on torrents, Im shocked you have even asked.
Users create their own content and upload, people make wallpapers etc, bands release music on torrents.
Linux distributions, various other opensource/freeware apps on torrents.

Hello peetee, I honestly didn't realise that there are quite a few companies that distribute things via torrents. Admittedly, I have always viewed torrenting as an illegal activity, end off, which appears isn't the case.

I can't name any off the bat, but many companies do.

Hi Skyfall, yep, that's fair enough.

 

[benneh]

As sad as this sounds the last 3 times I've been 'traffic shaped' by VM are the only 3 times in the last year that I've been genuinely angry about anything. Every time it happens it drives me into a long rage. Horrible ****s.

 

[Dolph]

Indeed. I dont claim that i'm throttled every day. I AM throttled EVERY TIME i want to download a program, legitimately for that matter (anything after about 1gb in a day get's me throttled). I download a lot of music, legitimately, and i'm throttled then too. My point is that legitimate customers are capable of downloading the same amount as pirates, minority indeed but it's just another example of the people who play by the rules being punished for no reason. Torrenting is immediately throttled regardless of my daily usage. the 1.1gb WoW patch had an estimated 12 day download time. 12 days! really getting my money's worth out of my 20mb unlimited broadband there!

And you know, if i did set up a media PC based around iPlayer, a perfectly viable scenario (look how many people set up PC's to use Skype for free calls. Literally like everyone in my family has it) i could quite easily use an "unfair" amount of bandwith.

We can also do this without being condescending and patronising.

I can certainly understand frustration at having torrents restricted for no good reason, I'm a firm believer in net neutrality in that all protocols and traffic should be treated the same, in fact that simple thing alone would be enough to make me move ISP if mine was doing that.

But that's not really an 'unlimited' argument, it's a net neutrality argument, so that's kind of irrelevant.

The real solution is to abolish the 'unlimited' term and sell people an amount of bandwidth per month, but that's problematic because the general public don't know what their usage is, and will think they are getting a worse deal even though it's probably exactly the same, and there will also be complaints from the minority of users that they are now having to pay for their usage. At the moment, it's somewhat akin to water rates rather than a water meter, everyone pays the same irrespective of usage, that's the part that's really got to be changed.

 

[englishpremier]

I think the 'unlimited' title and the traffic shaping and throttling is a huge problem.

Usually throttling or trafic shaping would happen between 4pm-12 which is when most people actually need/want to use their bandwidth. Maybe to watch high quality streams on Iplayer, 4 on demand etc.. In fact on Iplayer you can download the shows, download two episodes of top gear or something and thats ver 1.2gb and no doubt you'll be capped.

 

[JIM_BOB7813]

Have you got any evidence to show that companies use Torrenting as a legal method of distribution?

Doesn't 4od/joost/iplayer work on a user-based torrent system?

This game/engine has an in-game torrent system for distributing maps and mods.

 

["andy"]

never had a problem with the throttling when using iplayer etc to be honest. i dont need the full speed to watch something on it

if people want a connection they can max out 24/7 then they should get a buisness one. especially the people who just download movie after movie after tv series after tv series for no reason at all.

just so they can say "yea well i ilegally own every single episode of every single program ever made"

*****

 

[Burnsy2023]

Technically they aren't lying - you have unlimited access to the Internet 24/7/365 - it was you who assumed the word "unlimited" to relate to bandwidth consumption.

Surely that's 'always on'? I'm sorry but that the type of marketing BS that just confuses consumers.

You also need to take into account that not all home connections are used by one sole user. I am in a student house and there are 8 heavy users. Just think about the usage of 8 people all watching iplayer at once. It doesn't take a wild imagination to think that a lot of ISPs would not be happy at our legitimate usage. Thankfully it's not a prob with Be.

 

[peetee]

Im shocked at all the people here who seem to think for the pennies you pay every month you should be aloud to download as much as you want when you want, buy a leased line if you want that, we all share the same bandwidth, if a few people are heavily leeching its going to have an effect on the rest of the users in the local area, then you would get your gamers whinging about your high ping, peoples web surfing would be slower etc..
And you wouldnt get your top speed anyway, since you'll all be leeching the bandwidth right up between you.

If you do a lot of heavy downloading then do it when its not going to have an effect on overall QoS of other users, as a Virgin user I think the Virgin rules are wholely fair, I can download to my hearts content, but at peak times this will slow down, but in return im guaranteed that surfing is of acceptable quality and if I want to play a game im not going to suffer from any lag.