4870 vs 260 maxcore

sebna · 7 Nov 2008 at 12:57

Well I see that I was not clear enough.

I got 8800gt now -> I did not installed new drivers for more then 6 months, why because I do not have to and I do not care about 1fps here and there.

I had 1900xtx I had to HAD to reinstall driver every month because I had problems with compatibility and new games and worst thing was that on new drivers often older titles had problems in which I was still playing.

It looks like You are now in exactly the same situation I was - I had twice in a row ATI cards I got used to all issues and often driver changes and I thought it is normal and I did not understand what is all about the big fuzz ppl are making about drivers and stuff, but once I went for NV as it was better choice at that time and suddenly I understood - it does not have to be like this that you have to change ATI drivers every month and anyway you are running into problems.

Probably you are thinking that I am talking crap but once you discover beautiful world without constant search for good drivers and never ending driver swap then you will understand.

oweneades · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:09

At the moment it appears you should get the card you want based on the games you play. Some games favour Nvidia (crysis for example) whilst others prefer ATI (Grid is a good example here). In games which are closer both the GTX260 (192sp AND 216sp models) and the HD4870 (again both 512mb AND 1024mb models) offer excellent performance (ie both are offering more than playable framerates) so you shouldn't be dissapointed with either.

I went for a GTX260 over the HD4870 for a couple of reasons:

1) I have had issues with ATI drivers in the past (HD4850's in CF) on my setup whereas I have never had a problem with my Nvidia cards
2) Cuda (and thus Folding@home)

I doubt I would have been dissapointed in the HD4870 when gaming but these other two points swayed me towards the GTX260.

TNA · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:19

Boogle said:
Can't compare second hand prices to new prices

I did not compare. I gave info to the guy where he can pick up a good deal. That's all.

RavenXXX2 · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:26

Ohh noes, what am I going to do, i bought an ATI card and I may have to install their latest and greatest driver once a month > sarcasm ends < . There are some muppets doing the rounds lately.

gt_junkie · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:29

RavenXXX2 said:
Ohh noes, what am I going to do, i bought an ATI card and I may have to install their latest and greatest driver once a month > sarcasm ends < . There are some muppets doing the rounds lately.

Indeed... making themselves look petty and silly.

gt

elpedro · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:31

oweneades said:
whilst others prefer ATI (Grid is a good example here).

Thing is though, even thought the 4870 may offer increased performance, in GRID for example. Its not like the GTX 260 has ANY issues playing it maxed out, atleast mine doesn't. Whereas the games Nvidia play better, the FPS is actually important as the ATI offerings cannot achieve the godly number which is 60FPS. (Fair enough, in some cases neither can the GTX 260/280 but they are a damnsight closer)

layte · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:43

Can you list some games, where using the same settings the 260 manages to keep above 60fps but the 4870 does not. Just out of interest mind.

sebna · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:50

gt_junkie said:
Indeed... making themselves look petty and silly.

gt

Well GT if reinstalling drivers is joy of your life and you think it is such a well spent time then go ahead and have fun I prefer to do more interesting thing in this time.

gt_junkie · 7 Nov 2008 at 13:57

sebna said:
Well GT if reinstalling drivers is joy of your life and you think it is such a well spent time then go ahead and have fun I prefer to do more interesting thing in this time.

Think you missed the subtleties of my post... take a look at my sig. I think you'll see that i'm using nv at present too.

(not that i prefer NV or anything - just using a card that i like)

I was only being as sarcastic as RavenXXX2 was since i thought his post was uncalled for.

gt

mmj_uk · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:02

RavenXXX2 said:
Ohh noes, what am I going to do, i bought an ATI card and I may have to install their latest and greatest driver once a month > sarcasm ends < . There are some muppets doing the rounds lately.

The thing with ATI though is their latest driver isn't always the greatest, they usually break just as much as they fix.

mmj_uk · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:03

RavenXXX2 said:
Ohh noes, what am I going to do, i bought an ATI card and I may have to install their latest and greatest driver once a month > sarcasm ends < . There are some muppets doing the rounds lately.

The thing with ATI though is their latest isn't always the greatest, they usually break as much as they fix which is why it's a neverending cycle of monthly/weekly driver releases.

MR.B · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:12

Final8y said:
Your facts about me are wrong as i don't have a 4870 nor have i ever claimed to have owned one ..so its you who has to get your facts straight.
I have quad 3870 & none of my games have become broken.
If you think i have to push my experience with my setup & ati cards over the years aside & bend over to you just so you stop calling me silly names then your sorely mistaken & you must learn to hold your own with out the silly name calling as that is a sign of your own insecurity that your statements are not strong enough on their own & you have to resort to implying someone with a differing view to you has some psychological displacement.

And no im not always popping up to defend but i will pop in when silly over generalising statements are made It, it just happened to be the same members who post them..including you.

I never said you owned a 4870... and even though you aint owned a 4xxx card or have ever used one(?), you seem seem to think you know better than people who have actually owned them like myself?

You say my claims are wrong from your own experience, one person, compared to my own experience on multiple systems and many many other peoples experiences? Even hardware sites that review ATI cards lately have said exactly what i have.

I cant see how you cannot just except these facts... the only explanation i can think of is you're a fanboy, and i'm not just saying that to call you a name or out of rage, you really seem like one - defending ATI to the end, even when you're clearly in the wrong.

Final8y · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:35

MR.B said:
I've found NV BETA drivers to often be as good as ATI final drivers, and with each ATI release they often break as much as they fix... i dont think releasing drivers each month is a good thing either, it's obviously not enough time to get them polished enough.

The method that AMD uses to maintain and test their drivers necessitates eliminating some games from testing for extended periods of time. This can sometimes result in games that used to work well with AMD hardware or scale well with CrossFire to stop performing up to par or to stop scaling as well as they should.

so the fact NV dont release WHQL drivers as often does not bother me. I'm always downloading BETA's and not had any trouble. The latest 183.43 BETA's are great, improvements all round.

This is what i replied to & had nothing to-do with the 4870 as you did not mention the 4870 nor i in my reply to you.
you were making a general Ati card statement in that post intentionally or not.
So i replied with

Seeing as i have been using ATI crossfire allot longer & more than you i would say your claims about ATI are wrong.

Once again nothing to-do with the 4870 & about the ati cards that i have.

Its you who then brought in the troubles of the 4870 which i do not experience on my 4x3870.

Be more specific in what ATI cards your on about from the start in future.

MR.B said:
I never said you owned a 4870... and even though you aint owned a 4xxx card or have ever used one(?), you seem seem to think you know better than people who have actually owned them like myself?

You say my claims are wrong from your own experience, one person, compared to my own experience on multiple systems and many many other peoples experiences? Even hardware sites that review ATI cards lately have said exactly what i have.

I cant see how you cannot just except these facts... the only explanation i can think of is you're a fanboy, and i'm not just saying that to call you a name or out of rage, you really seem like one - defending ATI to the end, even when you're clearly in the wrong.

Name calling if never called for it make you look immature & i have noticed you like to throw around the fanboy word allot in many of your ati posts

Im not in the wrong as in talking about my experience with 4x 3870 which you do not have so you do not have that fact in anyway shape or form to how well they run & what troubles i have.

Adrianr · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:39

Final8y said:
So i replied with
Once again nothing to-do with the 4870 & about the ati cards that i have.

Its you who then brought in the troubles of the 4870 which i do not experience on my 4x3870.

Be more specific in what ATI cards your on about from the start in future.

It has everything to do with it. Crossfire isn't a technology specific to 3870X2s, I think it is you who need to be more specific in future. If you're rubbishing his claims based on your longer Crossfire experience you should have at least used the products he is arguing about.

Final8y · 7 Nov 2008 at 14:46

Adrianr said:
It has everything to do with it. Crossfire isn't a technology specific to 3870X2s, I think it is you who need to be more specific in future. If you're rubbishing his claims based on your longer Crossfire experience you should have at least used the products he is arguing about.

He was not talking about the 4870 specifically in his original statement which i replied to as you can clearly see, he was generalising crossfire & i was talking about my crossfire experiences & no they are not all the same & i don't have 3870X2s i did say 4x3870.
Maybe you should read back a bit more.
If he was talking about 4870 crossfire from the start then he would have have no argument from me.

Adrianr · 7 Nov 2008 at 15:03

Final8y said:
If he was talking about 4870 crossfire from the start then he would have have no argument from me.

Like i said, Crossfire isn't a technology specific to a generation of cards.. If it works on your 3870s but doesn't on his 4870X2, you can't wade in here saying "I've used it longer therefore you're wrong"..

If you were talking about 3870 Crossfire from the start you may not have had any argument from him

Final8y · 7 Nov 2008 at 15:06

Adrianr said:
Like i said, Crossfire isn't a technology specific to a generation of cards.. If it works on your 3870s but doesn't on his 4870X2, you can't wade in here saying "I've used it longer therefore you're wrong"..

If you were talking about 3870 Crossfire from the start you may not have had any argument from him

Originally Posted by MR.B View Post
I've found NV BETA drivers to often be as good as ATI final drivers, and with each ATI release they often break as much as they fix... i dont think releasing drivers each month is a good thing either, it's obviously not enough time to get them polished enough.

The method that AMD uses to maintain and test their drivers necessitates eliminating some games from testing for extended periods of time. This can sometimes result in games that used to work well with AMD hardware or scale well with CrossFire to stop performing up to par or to stop scaling as well as they should.

so the fact NV dont release WHQL drivers as often does not bother me. I'm always downloading BETA's and not had any trouble. The latest 183.43 BETA's are great, improvements all round.

Please point out to me where he said 4870x2 in that statement ^^.
All i see is him saying is crossfire & drivers breaking crossfire for some games when they worked before which i have never experienced.
Oh and you can reply to a general statement with a general reply, its the one who makes the original comment who has to set the specifics.

Adrianr · 7 Nov 2008 at 15:18

Final8y said:
Seeing as i have been using ATI crossfire allot longer & more than you i would say your claims about ATI are wrong.

Shouldn't you have set the specifics there? He's already said why the monthly release drivers schedule and removing games from the testing may break crossfire. Internet agrees. Whats your excuse?

Boogle · 7 Nov 2008 at 15:28

Mr.B said:
This can sometimes result in games that used to work well with AMD hardware or scale well with CrossFire to stop performing up to par or to stop scaling as well as they should.

Final8y, would you even notice this issue? I ran 9800GTX SLI on a Phenom @ 3Ghz and got worse performance in-game (outside of benchies) with SLI than a single card. AFAIK the default ATI drivers don't provide a system for checking whether CrossFire is actually enabled or not. I especially doubt you're getting good scaling with FOUR GPUs with that CPU, regardless of driver issues. Worse still the 3000 series has horrible, horrible microstutter in CrossFire.

Not trying to say CrossFire is bad, it's better than SLI now (4000 series CF is uber). Just pointing out that just because you haven't noticed it - doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Final8y · 7 Nov 2008 at 15:39

Adrianr said:
Shouldn't you have set the specifics there? He's already said why the monthly release drivers schedule and removing games from the testing may break crossfire. Internet agrees. Whats your excuse?

He made a general crossfire statement & i made a general crossfire reply & its as simple as that.

I could if i wish set specifics at that point but he then has a right to say he is not talking about any specific ATI range as he never mentioned any in the first place. so its safer the stay on the side of caution & get specific when he decides to as some people can take it as putting words into their mouths.

He then went into specifics with

That part of what i said is fact, ATI do indeed do that when developing drivers.
And theres a whole lot of people that would also disagree with you, but you know, anyone else experience never matters but your own.... Like the problems myself and many others had/have with the 4xxx cards i'm sure your'll try and play it down. Because regardless of what you say, you are clearly a fanboy, always popping up to defend them..

So i then went specific

Your facts about me are wrong as i don't have a 4870 nor have i ever claimed to have owned one ..so its you who has to get your facts straight.
I have quad 3870 & none of my games have become broken.
If you think i have to push my experience with my setup & ati cards over the years aside & bend over to you just so you stop calling me silly names then your sorely mistaken & you must learn to hold your own with out the silly name calling as that is a sign of your own insecurity that your statements are not strong enough on their own & you have to resort to implying someone with a differing view to you has some psychological displacement.

And no im not always popping up to defend but i will pop in when silly over generalising statements are made It, it just happened to be the same members who post them..including you.

He was on about crossfire in general then moved onto troubles on the 4xxx. I was talking about my trouble free experience on my 3xxx cards & not to generalise problems on 1 series with others series unless it is so.
Simple really.