The '66 mod for Grand Prix Legends is out...

[DreXeL]

Photoshop can work wonders

To be fair though the game can look fantastic in screenshots, but in motion it does show it's age quite badly, everything looks very 'flat'.

Not that any of this matters, it's all about the way it plays

 

[JRS]

Compared to what, a pile of vomit?

The first Half Life was released the same year IIRC....and that looks rather more like arse than GPL does

Looks a little better on my comp since I run it with full AA and Aniso enabled, 1280 x 1024 res. Admittedly, rFactor looks better....it just isn't as much fun as GPL.

 

[timbob]

LFS gets very close indeed though..... The tyre modelling is just fantastic. But nothing these last few years (rFactor, GTR, GTR2, GTL, LFS, etc...) has given me the thrill that GPL used to.

I puropsefully haven't reinstalled it after all these years, as I'm a little worried that I view it with rose-tinted specs.

 

[JRS]

I puropsefully haven't reinstalled it after all these years, as I'm a little worried that I view it with rose-tinted specs.

See, I've always had it installed on my comp since it was released. It's the sim I judge every new one that I come across against....and each time I still find others wanting in some area. Part of me can't wait to see what iRacing (Dave Kaemmer's latest team) comes up with. The other part of me wants everyone at iRacing to die screaming with sharp objects sticking out of them for doing their level best to kill off the modding community for NASCAR Racing '03, but that's not really relevant.

 

[timbob]

One of the other "nearly there" sims is the 79 mod for rFactor. Version 2 really is excellent, tyre feel is better, and all the cars have their own individual chassis model (version 1 cars all shared the same model) so they all feel different to drive.

The driving model doesn't quite have the x-factor that GPL had - but the spirit is there with the 79 mod. Well worth a try if anyone reading hasn't already done so.

 

[fish99]

Yeah the 79 mod for rFactor is superb, it's the closest thing there's been (or likely to be) to GPL2. I've long since moved away from GPL (it was the best sim around for years) after many years and many online seasons with it. The number of technical issues just grew with every new OS until it reached the point where it was too much effort to keep it working.

Never been impressed with the physics in LFS, something just fundamentally wrong with how the RWD roadcars drive. The FWD cars are fine, and to some extent the 4WD cars, the open wheelers are excellent (Formula XR, V8, BMW), but the RWD roadcars (Raceabout, FZ50) just let go far too easy and are far too difficult to catch. Real RWD cars on road/sports tyres let go far more progressively than that. Same thing with the caterhams (LX4/LX6), if they drove like that in real life everyone who owned one would be dead right now.

Btw did someone just compare GPL to Sega Rally and TDU? Lol

 

[silversurfer]

Runs on a p90


Is the mastertronic copy that is sold perfectly good to mod and add to like is mentioned here

The other part of me wants everyone at iRacing to die screaming with sharp objects sticking out of them for doing their level best to kill off the modding community for NASCAR Racing '03, but that's not really relevant.

Is GPL similar in feel to nascar at all, I used to play the original all the time on the watkins glen track

 

[JRS]

One of the other "nearly there" sims is the 79 mod for rFactor. Version 2 really is excellent, tyre feel is better, and all the cars have their own individual chassis model (version 1 cars all shared the same model) so they all feel different to drive.

The driving model doesn't quite have the x-factor that GPL had - but the spirit is there with the 79 mod. Well worth a try if anyone reading hasn't already done so.

Yeah, the '79 mod is the only GP mod I currently have in my rF install. And as you say, V2 is so much improved from the earlier release which had already shown a lot of promise.

The V8Factor (Aussie V8 Supercars), TPSCC (NASCAR mod made by The Pits) and the C6 'vette being made by some guys at RSC to try and dope out some of the physics engine oddities that exist in rF are the only other mods I have on there right now. That said, Team Players released their 1955 Merc GP car....that'll be going on sometime in the new year when I can finally drag myself away from GPL for more than 10 ten minutes!

Is the mastertronic copy that is sold perfectly good to mod and add to like is mentioned here

Yep. Needs patching to the latest version, of course, but someone in the community at RSC built an all-in-one patch to get the GPL exe fixed up nicely. Then you just need to add the GPLEA '67 cars, GEM+, and the '65, '66 and '69 mods, and any of the hundreds of add-on tracks that you want. And the track updates to the original ones. And the sound updates to the original cars (you actually need to do that last one if you want to run the '67s after applying the all-in-one patch).

Is GPL similar in feel to nascar at all, I used to play the original all the time on the watkins glen track

From NASCAR 4 onwards, the GPL engine was used as a base. The tyre model is more complex, and with the cars it simulates there's none of that glorious let-it-all-hang-out slidey slidey tyre squealing stuff as the car will break away and spin much earlier.

I wish Papyrus had been able to use the GPL engine earlier in the series. I keep wondering what NASCAR Legends (1970 NASCAR....the era of the Winged Warriors) would have been like with a physics engine that would do it justice. Sadly, thanks to iRacing the closest we'll ever get now is The Pits '70 mod for N03, which uses the Craftsman Truck physics with some grip tweaks to the tracks.

 

[Neil777]

Never been impressed with the physics in LFS, something just fundamentally wrong with how the RWD roadcars drive. The FWD cars are fine, and to some extent the 4WD cars, the open wheelers are excellent (Formula XR, V8, BMW), but the RWD roadcars (Raceabout, FZ50) just let go far too easy and are far too difficult to catch. Real RWD cars on road/sports tyres let go far more progressively than that. Same thing with the caterhams (LX4/LX6), if they drove like that in real life everyone who owned one would be dead right now.

I've only just got back into LFS but from reading the forums I think this may have been sorted out in the patch that was released a week or two ago.

 

[timbob]

Aaaaaaaaaaand it's threeeead resurrection time!!!!

I have sucummbed, the community made it just too easy. I reinstalled the game again off the CD, applied the "All in One" patch from the GPL Preservation Society, which includes all the fast CPU speed patches, D3D renderer updates, GPLEA car updates, and the best of the graphical updates for each of the 11 Papy tracks. And that was it, GPL worked first time, no fiddling.

I've done a few laps round Monza in the Lotus, in the default setup with a lighter fuel load, and got straight back to 1:30.0 laps (still 2.5 secs off my best though).

Now, I occasionally play old games again, I'll install Deus Ex, or the original C&C, or Max Payne 1... But after half an hour or so, I'm bored again. They were great at the time, but time has moved on. But, GPL doesn't feel like that. It is caked in atmosphere, and still drives fantastically.

So, as per my post of last year, it turns out that I wasn't viewing GPL with rose tinted specs. IMO, it still stands up today...... Especially with the full 37 mile Isle of Man course, and the 72km Targa Florio tracks close to completion.......

 

[Darg]

Reminds me of my old skeletrix set

 

[JRS]

So, as per my post of last year, it turns out that I wasn't viewing GPL with rose tinted specs. IMO, it still stands up today...... Especially with the full 37 mile Isle of Man course, and the 72km Targa Florio tracks close to completion.......

Tell me about it. I can barely stand the wait!

GPL is still the only racing sim that is always on my HDD. Yes, the visuals aren't quite as spangly as some newer sims. Yes, the tyre model leaves a fair bit to be desired. Yes, it's locked at 36fps. But it's still the most fun you can have racing on your computer, and nothing has come out since that gets close IMO.

 

[timbob]

I don't mind the visuals - sure they might not be photorealistic, and they're very definitaly "Computer Generated Polygonal" visuals, rather than some high polycount modern stuff that you need to do a double take on to distinguish from real life...

BUT...! There's something about the colour palette that makes it look real. There's also something about the object placement and simplicity of track layouts that gives the whole game that 60s ambience, uncluttered and unspoiled. The 36fps thing doesn't grate either, because it runs smoothly.

RE the tyre model, I still don't think anything apart from LFS has come close. Sure it might have errors, but it feels real to drive. I feel like I have control over the car, and can influence it's course. Other sims feel detached by comparison.

I've just installed and have been running the 1965 mod this evening, and heck, it's fun! I've been having some close races with the AI, and they're great to drive. And the new cars look great too.

 

[SKILL]

I'd say iRacing is the only game to compete with GPL imo, and has for me at least taken over from GPL,

The only thing it's lacking is cars and tracks, but they are steadily being added (Watkins Glen next week \o/ \o/)

Still, should probably fire up GPL again sometime, I think with the progress I've made whilst playing iRacing I might actually be able to beat some of my PB's in GPL as well...

 

[Iestycat]

Hi guys! OC Newbie here. Seeing this thread made me sign up, haha.
Well, a friend of mine punts the odd thread from here my way every so often.
I've bought some stuff from OC in the past (upgraded for the 66 mod, incidentally, along with G25 last Xmas. Dual core, mobo and ram is the minimum needed to run that and 69 on monza 1955 with banking). In the last few years the only forums I've checked regularly are RSC~GPL and a few band sites, mostly Enter Shikari, so no room for here !

Interesting to see how once the GPLPS installer was made a lot of people have reinstalled GPL - no matter how computer literate everyone is, make something simple and people will come (back in this case, lol) .

I'm racing for UKGPL on Sunday, Tim It's just about still going, now at Simracing.org.uk, switched from fiddly Yahoo stuff last year. But still - many people were lost in the switch, naturally lol. & Hey, come online, the AI suck! And there's no noobs left now, they've all gone - and after a few pickups you'll know who you can have fun races with (66 pickup races are each sunday, announced in RSC). Nothing beats doing 26/27's all race at Monza for example while battling some friends "I'll get you to a 26 at Monza. Then race you all race long doing them !". PS. The GPLWC Finals are going from now until Xmas. ENG - FIN - FRA - HUN! Hirvonen just set a new Mosport WR in anticipation of the next race, Lol. http://2008gplwc.rscsites.org/

Deko - what times/setups were you doing/using? Anyone can do laps at 2mph but going fast is where the fun is at! Slap a 30/85/1 in the beast and start power-oversteering! I'm -62 and -291 after over a year seriously driving GPL, with a break in the middle. Doing a 1hr race, with no mistakes, and trying to beat some seriously good simracers (iRacing champion or real racer etc.) is a heck of a challenge, along with the free+fun thrill of GPL on it's limits. If only real racing was not so expensive...... eh !

I've tried LFS and rFactor but I don't get any kind of 'feeling' from them. Admittedly I was using default setups in the LFS cars - and defaults are always shocking (150% shocking in GPL, they feel like a trolley and understeer worse than my front wheel drive, 1.2lt 65hp Fiat Punto Grande road car! Which I've actually overtaken an Enzo in, 'which I always mention just to sound like a pompous tool', haha. More on that later ofc!)

iRacing is possibly the only thing that can top GPL - it's had 10 years more development over the unfinished GPL (Not tried NR2003 but that was improved from GPL's engine?), shame they had to kill off Nascar Racing's modding community to legally take the code back, etc. iRacing still has some driving flaws in my eyes (Too grippy then snappy. There'd be way more serious Skippy accidents IRL too if that was the case, etc.) but on the whole it's a very good base to start from, and in ten years time I can see it being the market leader. iRacing World Championships TM anyone?

The special thing about GPL is one of it's unfinished flaws. (Hey, it was 1998. Look at F1 '98 on Playstation... enough said!!) GPL's slip angle stays linear with speed decrease - not non-linear like in real life. So the grip is there - but at a wider slip angle than most people would be used to (And yes, this is also no hatchback being simulated!). I think that's why most people refer to it as "being on ice". Driving a whole race with such a slip angle.... reminds me of a video of Silverstone 1973 I have. Ronnie Peterson is drifting the car through Stowe, back end out, leading on lap 1!!!

JRS sums it up nicely - it's the most fun you can have racing short of lumping out gazillions of cash. You just gotta know how to achieve it Cultural capital to the fore! iRacing might take that pedastal soon, they're on the way to possibly making something very good in the future. Lotus 79 @ WatGlen, SKILL? !!!!

Haha. Hopefully I won't write an essay everytime I post from now on

 

[timbob]

Two pictures shamelessley stolen from a similar thread I started on PH the other day:

Original GPL:

Modern GPL:

Now, nobody can say that they are "bad" cockpit graphics. A good 50% or more of rFactor mods, and all the LFS cars have far worse cockpit graphics than the updated GPL cars.

 

[Flibster]

Ooooh.... How am I resisting the urge to reinstall this again?

Sod it...

*goes hunting in the toy cupboard for the wheel, pedals and gearshift....*

 

[JRS]

Now, nobody can say that they are "bad" cockpit graphics. A good 50% or more of rFactor mods, and all the LFS cars have far worse cockpit graphics than the updated GPL cars.

This is my point when explaining the look of GPL to folks. The sim is capable of producing visuals that I would term "pretty bloody good" if the texture artist is up to the task (I dare anyone to say that a Jim Pearson track doesn't look good!). And at the end of the day - it was released in 1998.

Nineteen-ninety-*******-eight.

Ten years ago.

A bloody decade.

Half Life was released around the same time. And that looks like arse In fact, for the unbelievers - take a look at the games released in '98, and see how many actually look anywhere near as good as an updated GPL install.

Small hint - there really aren't all that many! * And of those that do still look good, how many actually have the sheer complexity of GPL?






* - Having said that, I do still play Hardwar from time to time....

 

[DreXeL]

Now, nobody can say that they are "bad" cockpit graphics. A good 50% or more of rFactor mods, and all the LFS cars have far worse cockpit graphics than the updated GPL cars.

Whilst this is true, and GPL's 'modern' visuals look really quite nice in screenshots, the lack of any kind of real-time lighting really shows the engine's age.

But that doesn't matter, and it looks like I'm going to have to install it again now

 

[JRS]

Whilst this is true, and GPL's 'modern' visuals look realy quite nice in screenshots, the lack of any kind of lighting really shows the engine's age.

It might just be my imagination, but I could have sworn that GPL does have some kind of lighting in it that does work with the track co-ordinates (i.e North-South alignment). Very basic, but definitely there.

Maybe my brain tricks me.....wouldn't be the first time.....

But that doesn't matter, and it looks like I'm going to have to install it again now

That's it DreX. Give in to GPL, and let it take over your sim-racing life