which protein shake ?

Morba said:
i dont see any cheap stuff in the independants that i have used.
online bulk suppliers is the cheapest, even better if you have a discount colde.
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Just checked on myprotien.co.uk and there impact whey is the same price as our gym sells reflex whey, must just be the bb'ing gyms around here.
 
my diet i try and eat lots of protien chicken beef etc fish...... fruit and carbs, as for general work out i have been going 5 times a week but after reading the sticky cutting down to 3 and i do an all around work out cardio weights etc and each area ..... so im wanting some yummy flavord stuff thatll help me along in building some MUSKLES!!!!!! lol hope that answers any q ...so suggestion please
 
Typically you need about 1.14g to 1.5g of protein per lb of LEAN body mass. You need to work that out, so for examply if you're 160lbs and you have 20% BF your LBM is: 128lbs So yo'd need 145~190g of protein.

A GOOD standard diet can get you that much without any need for protein shakes at all.

When you start getting to 200lb of LBM, where you need close to 300g then shakes do start to become much more sensible.

The RDA recommends .75g of protein. But that’s been shown to be too low
for active athletes. Some sites will recommend 2.0g of protein. But that seems a bit high and your body will have trouble absorbing that not to mention you will probably
have a lot of excess calories which can lead to fat gains.

1.14-1.5 is the most efficient range for most active, healthy adults. This
range will help build muscle but not lead you into a high protein diet.

So let us use that example above of someone needing 145~190g of protein per day.

Split that into 5 meals a day or 6... up to you.

For 6 meals that's between 24-30g of protein per meal. Very very easy to achieve.
 
It is easy to achieve I guess yeah, specially when you break it down.
Need to start stocking up on food then.
 
Freefaller said:
Typically you need about 1.14g to 1.5g of protein per lb of LEAN body mass. You need to work that out, so for examply if you're 160lbs and you have 20% BF your LBM is: 128lbs So yo'd need 145~190g of protein.

A GOOD standard diet can get you that much without any need for protein shakes at all.

When you start getting to 200lb of LBM, where you need close to 300g then shakes do start to become much more sensible.

The RDA recommends .75g of protein. But that’s been shown to be too low
for active athletes. Some sites will recommend 2.0g of protein. But that seems a bit high and your body will have trouble absorbing that not to mention you will probably
have a lot of excess calories which can lead to fat gains.

1.14-1.5 is the most efficient range for most active, healthy adults. This
range will help build muscle but not lead you into a high protein diet.

So let us use that example above of someone needing 145~190g of protein per day.

Split that into 5 meals a day or 6... up to you.

For 6 meals that's between 24-30g of protein per meal. Very very easy to achieve.
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Spot on post, as always :rolleyes:

:p

Look into ensuring you get enough of the two EFAs, omega 3 and 6. As well as ensuring you're eating a broad range amino acids. There are eight essential ones, included in this are the three BCAAs Leuicine, Isoleucine and Valine, which assist in very strenuous exercise and MAY be particularly helpful to bodybuilders, whose use of anaerobic exertion is very taxing.

Remember, sort your diet, sort your routine, and get enough sleep. The rest is marketing pap.
 
You're better off making your own shakes with real food imo,Raw egg smoothies are great and offer massive nutrition compared to protein powders,3-4 large free range eggs,1-2 tbsp butter(proper butter,not polyunsaturated crap)1-2 tbsp unrefined virgin coconut oil,1tsp ground cinnamon,1/2 tsp ground nutmeg.

Chuck it all in a blender with 2 cups of freshly boiled water and blend for 10-20secs,totally delicous and offers quality protein and good nature made saturated fats and virtually no carbs,prefer a low carb diet myself but thats a whole different discussion and is not advisable when starting out on a muscle building training regime.
 
Diet is the most important thing! But whey is cheap and chips and when your busy or skint, its very usefull :) Whey and porridge oats for me at work, only stop once aday. But i allways make sure i have proper meals when i can, takes seconds to mix and seconds to drink :)
 
smit101 said:
You're better off making your own shakes with real food imo,Raw egg smoothies are great and offer massive nutrition compared to protein powders,3-4 large free range eggs,1-2 tbsp butter(proper butter,not polyunsaturated crap)1-2 tbsp unrefined virgin coconut oil,1tsp ground cinnamon,1/2 tsp ground nutmeg.

Chuck it all in a blender with 2 cups of freshly boiled water and blend for 10-20secs,totally delicous and offers quality protein and good nature made saturated fats and virtually no carbs,prefer a low carb diet myself but thats a whole different discussion and is not advisable when starting out on a muscle building training regime.
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Sorry I don't understand? Polyunsaturated fats, are very healthy. Saturated fats are not. They are a major contributer to coronary heart desease, as well other other maladies. The shakes you're suggesting are odd, because whilst their natural source is both commendable and a personal passion of mine, a regular high intake of this amount of fat is not healthy. And, gram for gram, will offer nowhere near as much protein as a decent shake. Does sound pretty tasty mind :p

If you a want low fat, low carb, healthy alternative to taking shakes, then just eat lean poultry and fish :confused: Not only is it a better source of a good range of natural amino acids and complete proteins, but it is as nature intended :)
 
WantoN said:
Sorry I don't understand? Polyunsaturated fats, are very healthy. Saturated fats are not. They are a major contributer to coronary heart desease, as well other other maladies. The shakes you're suggesting are odd, because whilst their natural source is both commendable and a personal passion of mine, a regular high intake of this amount of fat is not healthy. And, gram for gram, will offer nowhere near as much protein as a decent shake. Does sound pretty tasty mind :p

If you a want low fat, low carb, healthy alternative to taking shakes, then just eat lean poultry and fish :confused: Not only is it a better source of a good range of natural amino acids and complete proteins, but it is as nature intended :)
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It is a common misconception that saturated fats are unhealthy due to all of the mis-information we've been fed over the years,saturated fat is a vital component of the human diet and optimally should provide the bulk of the daily calorific intake.

Human cells are composed of at least 50% saturated fats,the cells of the lungs are composed 100% of saturated fats,the recommendation to cut saturated fat from the diet and increase polyunsaturates is based on flawed and unproven science.

When a polyunsaturated fat is heated,it leads to the production of trans-fatty acids,which have become the major contributer of heart disease in todays society.Saturated fat in no way contributes to coronary heart disease.

Polyunsaturated fats generally have a high omega 6 content,so if taken in large quantities,which in the western world they most certainly are,the bodies omega 3-6 ratio becomes extremely unbalanced in favour of omega 6,this is another major contributer to heart disease and various cancers.

Anyway don't take my word for it,there is a wealth of information available.

http://www.biblelife.org/saturated_fat.htm

http://www.biblelife.org/brainwashing.htm

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu3_3.php

http://http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/

http://homodiet.netfirms.com/

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm
 
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Morba said:
hold on, a brainwashing page from a religious website, how ironic!
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Hey,don't get me wrong,I'm certainly no bible basher!

The argument put forward is that Saturated Fats are unhealthy,I'm just trying to provide sound information which counters that argument,it just so happens the 'biblelife ministries' site links to a wealth of info on the subject.

This link is probably the most informative,providing a good balance of info without all the religous clap trap.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu3_3.php
 
smit101 said:
Hey,don't get me wrong,I'm certainly no bible basher!

The argument put forward is that Saturated Fats are unhealthy,I'm just trying to provide sound information which counters that argument,it just so happens the 'biblelife ministries' site links to a wealth of info on the subject.

This link is probably the most informative,providing a good balance of info without all the religous clap trap.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu3_3.php
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naturally bee also uses this website as one of its sources :D http://www.christiansoldierscross.com/pass_the_butter.htm

I took a good, long read through the rescources you've posted. Healing naturally bee uses flawed and non-existant sources for the most part, although some of the information regarding the benefits of butter are sound. And the information regarding the nutritional benefits was both interesting, and I corroberated it from other sources. However, half of the healthy acids found in butter it bangs on about are from unsaturated fatty acids ;) Most of it is moot anyway as the body sytnethises many, many fatty acids required for operation. It also states that it contains the fat soluble vitamins A, E, K and D. All of which are widely available in a host of other foods. As is the case for every other micronutrient stated, they can be obtained from healthier, low fat altneratives.

Then the website didn't even bother to segment the different types of cholesterol, and went on to state that cholesterol is good, and that medical proffessionals state it isn't; "Despite all of the misinformation you may have heard, cholesterol is needed to maintain intestinal health, but is also needed for brain and nervous system development in the young" Yeah, we already knew that, cheers.

The first websites primary source of information is a study conducted in 1949, it also uses extremist and scare-monger language like "deadly" when describing wholegrains ;) It also discusses heart desease figures in 1990, which is ridiculous, as medicine wasn't equipped to assess coronary heart desease as a cause, and the ECG was even invented until the 1920s, and wasn't credited as a viable or useful tool until much later (the website itself even refers to this!) It also begins with some half-baked story about an aquaintance doctor he knew who lived the healthy lifestyle but keeled over, got cances, whilst the missus got cancer... it just got veryy farcical. With no evidence, no testimonials or interviews, in fact nothing to demonstrate that it wasn't a complete fabrication, it lost credibility with me very quickly.

Also, anything mentioned regarding polyunsaturates and cooking is itself a misinformation, as this is NOT what's suggested (due to the fact that polyunsaturates have more double bonded carbons which can be hydrogenised) by any governmental body or foundation.

Omega 3 and 6 unbalance can cause major inflammatory illness as well as other issues, HOWEVER, healthy diets that contain a good source won't contribute to this, so the point is moot for the people among whom you're chatting and the dietry beliefs we hold.

The evidence you've presented did supply some valid and interesting points, and I for the most part, enjoyed a good read and even learnt more about the nutritional composition of butter.

However, the evidence is staggeringly underwhelming, whilst a whole host of independant and governmental research exists (I did LMFAO when the bible website started declaring that all people in the medical proffession were soulless hacks and that the studies produced were all funded by margarine companies who were out to thwart healthy eating) affirming the contrary.

The American and British heart foundation websites are a great place to start and will link a whole host of research. Also, have a google into the effects longer term of ketone bodies on the system (interesting the amount on seizure control!)

The coconut website was actually very, very interesting for me. I enjoyed it, and 'learnt' a shed load. Unfortunately, it didn't source any peer-approved studies to confirm its findings, which is a shame. However I have bookmarked it, and some of the information on butter too.


Nice one for opening my eyes to the postive effects to what I would deem no-go foods, and thanks for actually starting something that could be really interesting to discuss. I'd be very interested if you've any other information regarding this saturated fat debate? preferably from medical journals or proper independant research.

All that said, I won't be having fried egg and bacon for breakfast any time soon ;)
 
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Haven't really got the time to go scouring for official medical papers written pupporting the benefits of saturated fats,lets face it most official medical research is funded by pharmaceutical companies and is therefore geared towards drug therapy.

The links I've provided are pretty comprehensive and if you remain unconvinced of the benefits of dietry saturated fats then so be it,I haven't the ability or desire to try to convince you further.

Dr Kwasnieswki with his optimal diet site has opened my eyes to a lot of untruths within the medical and Nutritional industries,he has healed a great many people with high saturated fat diets,not sure how much evidence you need.

I would say,buy yourself some virgin coconut oil,organic eggs,free range butter(made from unpasteurised dairy if you can get it)good sources of fresh meat and Fish and incorporate them into your diet for a month,then come back here and tell me again that saturated fat is unhealthy!;)
 
smit101 said:
I would say,buy yourself some virgin coconut oil,organic eggs,free range butter(made from unpasteurised dairy if you can get it)good sources of fresh meat and Fish and incorporate them into your diet for a month,then come back here and tell me again that saturated fat is unhealthy!;)
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I'm always interested in other peoples foods on opinions. And the heavily carb bias diet that is the 'healthy plate model' has always jarred with me, but a personal opinion is that saturate fats shouldn't consistute the primary portion of your intake.

I eat complex carbs during the day and taper to nothing but fibrous in the evenings. Good quality meat and fish is heavily dominant too. I only buy organic and free-range, as long as I can handle the wallet damage :)

Like I said, you've given me food for thought, thanks. I do use a spread! But its Pure Sunflower: http://www.puredairyfree.co.uk. I may consider butter as an alternate or treat. Can you recommend any good brands and stores?

Also what do you do with the coconut oil? Cook with it? This has been the most interesting point for me, as I tend to pick up the organic pre-prepped peices for a snack, and never realised the extent of the proposed health benefits.

Olive Oil doesn't hydrogenate in home cooking and its a health scare that I've been adamant to deny, I love it! but if there's other uses for the coconut oil I'd love to experiment. Again have you got any recommendations / stores for virgin coconut oil?

I know I've come accross as up my own arse, and I probably am when it comes to nutrition, so sorry. If you eat what you eat and you're healthy, then fair dos. :D

EDIT: Bam! Thread hijack +1 ^_^
 
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Olive oil is a very healthy oil which I use myself a lot,although I rarely,if ever cook with it,I tend to use it generously on salads,I'm even quite partial to a good slug of it on my steaks.

The beauty of coconut oil is the fact that when heated it's chemical structure remains largely unaltered,which is due to it's high saturate content,ie,no trans fat is produced.

I get my coconut oil from http://www.coconutoilcompany.com/

It's an Excellent quality oil and the best price I've yet found in the U.K,I've been using coconut oil for a few years now,initially the prices were astronomic,but people are beginning to learn of it's wonderful health benefits,so demand has increased and driven the price down.

As far as butter goes,imo the only unhealthy aspect of it is the processed salt that is normally shoved into it,due to this I tend to go for unsalted varieties,we have a local brand called lightwood who make some brilliant organic unpasteurised cheeses and butters,they do an unsalted butter which I use reguarly,otherwise I swear by Anchor Butter which comes from purely grassfed animals thus it contains a very high CLA content.

Another good site for healthy oils is http://www.red23.co.uk/.They sell an unpasteurised butter which is good, but too expensive imo,it's also a bit salty for my taste,I use it occasionally though and feel really good on it.

Don't forget to get yourself some unrefined salt if you already haven't,Himalayan is great!
 
saturated fats are bad dude, theres no two ways about it. Your links and references are all from non-medical bodies filled with unsubstatiated content. Ive worked with many nutritionists and health professionals both as a scientist and as a bodybuilder and i have heard the whole "saturated fat is really good for you" sensationalism, yet i have never found a single medical study showing any benefits over using unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats as substitutes. Saturated fats make you fat quicker and are worse for your internals.
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
saturated fats are bad dude, theres no two ways about it. Your links and references are all from non-medical bodies filled with unsubstatiated content. Ive worked with many nutritionists and health professionals both as a scientist and as a bodybuilder and i have heard the whole "saturated fat is really good for you" sensationalism, yet i have never found a single medical study showing any benefits over using unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats as substitutes. Saturated fats make you fat quicker and are worse for your internals.
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So in your opinion,foods that have nourished populations for centuries such as meats,fish,eggs,cheese,butter,coconut oil and many more are all bad for us! Sorry mate,but you really are talking nonsense.

The Official medical studies you require the presentation of,rarely if ever concentrate on nutrition.

Good nutrition is an illness and disease preventitive,this is of no interest to a greedy and corrupt,profit seeking medical industry,most official medical research is funded by the Pharma companies and so concentrates on drug therapies that will directly create huge profits.

Saturated fats are an absolute crucial component of the daily diet,the info in the links provided previously,imo very clearly explains this,anyway here are a few more for your perusal.

I'm not suggesting saturated fat should be the only fat eaten,indeed most saturated fats include proportions of poly and monounsaturates anyway,but I do firmly believe saturated fat is not the health hazard it's been claimed to be and when eaten in the correct proportion to other nutrients,can only aid in the daily regeneration and repair of the body.

http://homodiet.netfirms.com/otherssay/letters/fatbenefits.htm

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/17/saturated-fat1.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/21/saturated-fat2.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/24/saturated-fat3.aspx

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2005/02/04/saturated_fat_to_the_rescue.htm
 
smit101 said:
So in your opinion,foods that have nourished populations for centuries such as meats,fish,eggs,cheese,butter,coconut oil and many more are all bad for us! Sorry mate,but you really are talking nonsense.
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M8 for 10's of thousands of years people lived in caves. Does that mean we should all trade in our two up two down detached for something in a nice limestone and lichen?

Or perhaps homeopathic medicine, you know they used to put leeches on you to drain out bad blood. Sorry mr cutting edge practitioner, you can keep your cancer drugs and your cholera vaccines! I'm gonna shove limpets up my bum because theyve been around longer.

Simply put m8 people have been on this earth nearly 2 million years. perhaps 4,000 of those years have been somewhat civilized, and for only the last 50 or so have we been able to properly analyze diet and eat foods that we WANT and REQUIRE in the correct proportions as and when we like. We have only recently earned the luxury of choice over our diets. So everything that has happened in humanity up to this point is completely irrelevant.

But it isnt like your going to listen to what im saying, just think about this, 100 years ago most saturated fat in diets came from good natural foods, luxury foods really, cheeses, butter, meats etc Even the wealthiest would only have small amounts. These days these foods are commonplace and available to even those on the most modest of budgets, this is not something you can measure against the history of humanity as humanity has NEVER been in this situation before! Besides, you say that how can something that has nourished people for centuries be bad? Lets not forget most of humanity, prior to modern post 20th century humans, had a sub 50 year life expectancy and generally poor health "im sorry mr nutritionist im going to eat like a victorian so i can be 5ft tall, overweight and die before i hit middle age"

You sir are talking twaddle
 
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