What is all the hoohaa abuot a DNA database - bring it on!

[NeilF]

As has already been pointed out to you, your name, age, race, telephone, address is taken by the police when you are arrested under suspicion for an offence. So if you lose your DNA data, the rest of it will be going with it, whether it's in paper form or digital form.

That's not the question at hand!

People are implying their DNA profile is so important that it's a huge risk if it gets lost? The argument has come up over and over in this thread.

Yet, ask any of those same people to post their person details (name, address & telephone) or instead their DNA profile (as Tefal did), they'd all put less value (risk) on posting their DNA profile. Yet, that's what they're kicking a fuss up about

 

[Tefal]

their DNA profile (as Tefal did))

hey it's not mine, it;s some French guys as far as i can tell.

I've never had one done.

 

[Weebull]

Because they gave up those details by choice! You're proposing we be forced onto a database of information, with or without consent. Can't you see the difference?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

In short, I suspect my DNA being in a database would not change a single aspect of my life, but such a database could have radical effects on crimes.

Could have a radical effect upon crimes; you show me with some certainty and I'll come along for the ride, but there is no way of knowing that this is the case.

CCTV has certainly not had a massive impact upon crime, speed cameras have not had a massive reduction in the number of accidents on UK roads. These aren't linked to the subject at hand but they are examples of large scale police / public initiatves that were supposed to improve aspects of our lives, but haven't really done anything other than leave us out of pocket.

All of this is without going into the DQM aspects of operating such a massive database. It could help some crimes, but equally it could hinder others and have a downright disasterous effect on others.

You dismissed other hypothesis as strawmen, but your own argument is based upon assumption as well.

Until then I would like to retain freedom of choice.

 

[Atrox Moris]

Hang on . for this database how exactly will they know if you've moved etc?

They won't. Unless you've been told to keep a local constabulary informed of your movements (like people out on license for sex offences or murder).

Won;t they just wind up with a name + picture rather than anything usefull (well i suppose thats useful but not greatly)

Yes. A name, previous address(es), phone numbers, phone numbers of people who provdie bail, phone numbers of relatives (if they list it as a residence) all there addresses, pictures etcetera. A lot of information. It's why very few people who go on the run don't last very long in the UK unless they flee the country.

if it;s done at birth then only a name not a face.

If it's done at brith all you have is a name and a DNA profile (if it were to be taken at birth). However taking the DNA profile doesn't stop that kid from growing up and murdering anyone. It just means it's easier to peg the crime on him when he does commit it.

 

[Tefal]

is it wrong i kindda want a chip? obviously not some massive satellite tracking one, but a tiny rifd (sp) chip like 10cm range somewhere so i just have to swipe my hand over at the check out to pay

would make cancelling a credit card a right bitch though

 

[NeilF]

I'm not suggesting you're endorsing those in the slightest. I was asking you whether you did support them as well, on the basis that they're fairly similar in execution. I wanted to find out where you draw your line.

Of course they are utterly different...

Your examples list CCTV and micro-implants (of some scifi flavour?)m compared to a DNA database. Both of these are realtime monitoring system that can directly following your movements.

The other, a DNA profile, in comparison is a reactive system. ie: A crime has occurred so a computer can run a profile scan on matching entries in a database. Exactly the same as if a finger print has been taken.

ps: I have no issue with CCTV at all... The more the better as far as I'm concerned... What the hell, add facial recognition to it as well please...


What your argument has proven is how people are willing to run rather far with the ball with the arguments about a DNA database. People seem to run right off into some fantasy scifi land somewhere... No doubt with evil clones being grown from entries in a DNA database.

 

[Tefal]

If it's done at brith all you have is a name and a DNA profile (if it were to be taken at birth). However taking the DNA profile doesn't stop that kid from growing up and murdering anyone. It just means it's easier to peg the crime on him when he does commit it.

No i mean say it;s done at birth he goes off and shoots the queen or what ever, they check the DNA found, all they get is a name, DOB and his parents (possibly). Doesn't seem that much to go on.

 

[Atrox Moris]

No i mean say it;s done at birth he goes off and shoots the queen or what ever, they check the DNA found, all they get is a name, DOB and his parents (possibly). Doesn't seem that much to go on.

His name and D.O.B would be a good enough start for the files and infomation that police currently hold on convicted and repeat offenders. His DNA could even be on the database from when he was swabbed as a kid for stealing sweets from Woolies.

 

[NeilF]

is it wrong i kindda want a chip? obviously not some massive satellite tracking one, but a tiny rifd (sp) chip like 10cm range somewhere so i just have to swipe my hand over at the check out to pay

would make cancelling a credit card a right bitch though

Can you imagine if OCuk started selling them! Everyone wanting the fastest/best version

 

[Tefal]

His name and D.O.B would be a good enough start for the files and infomation that police currently hold on convicted and repeat offenders. .

and for his first offence?

His DNA could even be on the database from when he was swabbed as a kid for stealing sweets from Woolies

Well it;s hardly going to have changed is it

 

[Tefal]

Can you imagine if OCuk started selling them! Everyone wanting the fastest/best version

*overclock my implant"

Imagine water cooling

 

[Weebull]

Your examples list CCTV and micro-implants (of some scifi flavour?) compared to a DNA database. Both of these are realtime monitoring system that can directly following your movements.

Hardly. Maybe for my fancy scifi monitoring devices, but do you really think there are people sitting there watching CCTV 24 hours a day to make it a real-time system? No, it's there as a reactive system like a DNA database would be, to help after a crime is committed.

Are you going to bother addressing my point about forcing people on to this register/database?

 

[a1ex2001]

That's not the question at hand!

People are implying their DNA profile is so important that it's a huge risk if it gets lost? The argument has come up over and over in this thread.

Yet, ask any of those same people to post their person details (name, address & telephone) or instead their DNA profile (as Tefal did), they'd all put less value (risk) on posting their DNA profile. Yet, that's what they're kicking a fuss up about

The DNA profile is only low risk in the current environment, you have no way of knowing it's future importance so giving a copy to the government is madness.

 

[NeilF]

Hardly. Maybe for my fancy scifi monitoring devices, but do you really think there are people sitting there watching CCTV 24 hours a day to make it a real-time system? No, it's there as a reactive system like a DNA database would be, to help after a crime is committed.

Are you going to bother addressing my point about forcing people on to this register/database?

My point is, if you're walking around in your daily life:-
- You're being caught on countrless CCTVs
- Your suggested super scifi implant is being tracked every foot you move by Sky-Net or whatever...

Meanwhile your DNA profile is sitting their on a harddrive... doing nothing... as it will probably for your entire life...


Point about forcing to register? You're already forced to register your existance... What difference does a cotton bud in your gob make?

 

[NeilF]

So far the only reasoned argument against a DNA database with any real merit and thought has come from Tefal... ie: the complexity/cost of it...

So +10 points to Tefal!

 

[Tefal]

No, it's there as a reactive system like a DNA database would be, to help after a crime is committed.

never been on a night out in Manchester/London then?

or watched Tv in the last few years?

Certain areas at times are activity monitored and police sent out when they think a crime might happen. ie two groups mouthing off at each other at throwing out time.

 

[Weebull]

Point about forcing to register? You're already forced to register your existance...

Not unless you want to vote, or claim benefits, or get job you don't. Of course you have to do those things to get by in society, but you still have the option of giving them over freely, and they only take the details that are relevant to that specific inquiry.

What difference does a cotton bud in your gob make?

That's not the point. Someone doesn't want to give you their DNA. What are you going to do about it?

 

[Weebull]

never been on a night out in Manchester/London then?

or watched Tv in the last few years?

Certain areas at times are activity monitored and police sent out when they think a crime might happen. ie two groups mouthing off at each other at throwing out time.

What, you mean they're monitoring an area because of the possiblity crimes may be commited there? Because of the history of crime in that area already? My word, that's pretty reactionary!

 

[NeilF]

That's not the point. Someone doesn't want to give you their DNA. What are you going to do about it?

That's fine... They couldn't perform any of the other 'registrations' then...

If they willing to get buy without voting, most likely a job, bank account or many other things.... Good luck to them

The bigger question though is, why would you not want to be on the DNA database... In effect your own selfish concept of importance - my DNA is too important to be on a database - is actually increasing crime and even costing lives. Yep, it could be argued to be as black and white as that to me...