Culture

regulus

regulus

regulus

Soldato
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At work today, we had a 28 year old English contractor that just came back to UK after living in Amsterdam for the past 12 years. His mother married a Dutch guy when he was 16 and he went over there with her. Now, he is fluent in Dutch and English, but, he is more Dutch than he is English. When we're not talking, he would sing Dutch songs to himself, when he whacked his finger with a screwdriver, he swore in Dutch. For all practical purposed, he is a Dutch guy with a British accent and heritage. I would've thought that at 16 you're set in your ways and your mind and being chose what it wanted to be.

Now, I was wondering. How long does it take living in a forgein country where you become so marinaded into the culture that you and your mind become part of it? Multi-faceted people like this tickles my curiosity to no end.

Do you have any experiences like this guy or do you know anyone like this?
Also, the non-British nationals posting on this board and living in UK. How do you find yourself changing with a new culture (language?) around you?

I hope I get some replies. It's a very fascinating subject for me.
 
Sorry you haven't had any replies; and I'm sure this one probably won't be worthwhile, but on Monday I had a 15minute viva voce on the subject of organisational culture, and it was fascinating for me to research into too.

A bloke called Shein wrote a model of the depths of culture; which you can translate to ABC - Artefacts (being the fickle things we do not need but are shown in our values, nice car, nice house), going deeper to B for Behaviour, on what we're taught within an organisation, such as how to act, ethical considerations and then the C, for Core values, our deepest sense of culture that are things taught at a young age; such as language.

I'd have thought at age 16, you'd have already had a predefined set of core values, which would be harder to be untaught or unlearnt than otherwise; but the strength of the dutch culture might have immersed him more than British, nearly all the studies you read suggest that British culture is weaker, and has less of a sense of diversity than others; especially compared to countries that speak many languages; e.g. Switzerland.

My girlfriends aunt lives in a touristy part of Majorca, and after about 7 years there she occassionally forgets how to say some English words, or phrases, which baffles me, so I don't think age is a factor, it may just be a sense of belonging or ownership to the new cultures.

If you fancied a read, I'd recommend someone called Hofstede, and while I'm sure this is all soft crap to most people, if you think about the anthropological stuff, it's really interesting.
 
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i can't say for certain, obviously, but i think it strongly depends on the type of person.

i was born and grew up in Africa (Zimbabwe, to be precise) and moved to england almost exactly 9 years ago, having lived there for 9 years.

many people today still remark that i don't seem English/british, and i'm often mistaken as american or south african.
i still have a mostly south-african accent and i behave in ways that people in the UK find baffling, yet i still find totally normal, and frequently i find English people strange for things that in the UK are perfectly normal.

i'm not sure whether i'll ever change either.
so, yeah, i strongly think it depends on the person.
 
Hard to say. My ex mother-in-law has lived in the U.S. for 42 years, but she grew up in Germany for the first 18 years of her life. She still can't figure out how to speak English. :rolleyes:
 
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I lived in Nepal aged 5-10. It certainly affected me, but after a few years back here I settled in and now you wouldn't tell me apart from the next guy. What I have got I think is a wider perspective, especially on things like poverty and race.
 
Well, Ive lived in 5 countries all over the place for at least 3 years each. It takes less than a month in my experience to learn certain ways.. I dont think you ever stop changing or developing.
Accent - When in Norway it took me about a month or two for my accent to change.. I still have bits left over such as breathing in when I say ya which they do. Also, whenever I go to the states which is fairly regularly, I use different words such as fries instead of chips or elevator instead of lift and restroom instead of ladies room/loo.. I just do it naturally now or else Im there for half an hour explaining what a loo is. Only made that mistake once!
Traditions/cultural differences - In Pakistan I knew almost instantly that one had to cover their body going out so that was a given. However, I had to change certain things.. such as I couldn't light a cigarette for a man even if I was lighting my own.. (ive since quit) .. as they would think youre easy. Just things you would normally do you have to change. In germany - had to get used to some peoples' sense of humour. Lovely people.. just some had a different idea of what was funny.
Some things are fairly instant and others take living there for a while to learn. I tend to find that having lived in places for 3+ years I feel like I am completely part of the place. This has never taken three years though. It usually takes me about 6 months.. just enough time to have met enough people to get a good idea of society, language and traditions, know the place well, have a few favourite places I like to go and a few favourite things I like to do.
 
Of all the places I've lived, I'm surprised anyone can understand me when I talk.

Grew up in the Detroit area, 18 years.
Massachussetts for 2 years listening to the New England dialect.
Texas for 2 years: strong southern accent.
Germany for 2 years.
Korea for 2 months.

People tell me now I have a problem pronouncing the long A sound as in bagel or dragon. It could be caused by all that.
 
Depends how much you want to fit into the local Culture.

for your example he did and lived life as a Dutch bloke. you didn't say how long he'd been back in the UK.

I've been in Cyprus 18 months, although I only speak a little speak Greek I've found myself using common Greek words even when talking to English people when back in the UK.
I do hate the Mind set that want to Create a "little Britten" over here, they are mostly just whiners that wouldn't be happy anywhere, So I just stay away from them.
my thoughts are If your going to Live in a foreign Country then you have to Learn the Language and mostly accept the culture. Nothing wrong with keeping your heritage. but don't go forcing it down the locals throats.

this now sounds Like a BNP advert, it wasn't meant to be but its my views and they would be in the Little Britten sect anyway.
 
Well, I'm bored of english "culture", learning as much japanese as I can, listening to japanese music 24/7, read my japanese book on the train every day...
 
Aod said:
*points finger accusationally*

WEEABOO!
Click to expand...

I'd rather be a Weeaboo than someone trapped underneath the "common sense" materialistic no-vision anti-intellectual popstar wannabe Chavs. Or "English" as it is now known.

You want to measure your culture? Look at who you worship, you admire, you aspire to be. For every Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Stephen Hawking and Richard Branson, you've got 800 hours/pages of TV/Radio/Newspaper/Magazine of trash talking no future simpletons posing as the elite of the nation. X-Factor IS Britain.

At a certain point, I'm happy just to wish the "pop" culture to **** off. And if that is by romanticizing about an ancient culture then I don't see the harm. After all, it can't be any backward than the religious right taking over the entire western hemisphere.

Don't get me wrong, there are so many things that I am proud of being British - the industrial revolution, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, longbow archers, the abolishment of the monarchy and setup of parliament (without external "aid"), the fact that we haven't been invaded since 1066, the NHS... and many more... there is so much that is either jarring or downright sickens me, and right now it is that we become like the worst of the US without gaining of the better stuff (Constitution? Bill of rights? Freedom of speech?)

I don't even have a "home town" because I was born in one place, then moved to another 5 years later, then parents moved out of the country and I went to boarding school for 7 years... I feel like a nomad in a country where everyone is aggressive to each other. Where is my culture now? I just feel like anything decent that we did, happened a loooooong time ago, and now Britain is stuck in a perpetual greedy self-serving cycle. What I can't understand is, why would foreigners actually want to come here??

Where do tourists go when they visit Britain? London, Stratford Upon Avon, Liverpool. Thats what it is to be British - The Queen, Shakespeare, Beatles. I feel like Rodney out of Only Fools And Horses...

EDIT : Forgot Darwin. Probably lots of other stuff. But long time ago...
 
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regulus said:
Now, I was wondering. How long does it take living in a forgein country where you become so marinaded into the culture that you and your mind become part of it? Multi-faceted people like this tickles my curiosity to no end.

Do you have any experiences like this guy or do you know anyone like this?
Also, the non-British nationals posting on this board and living in UK. How do you find yourself changing with a new culture (language?) around you?
Click to expand...

I lived in France between the ages of 12 and 18, and I think I'm torn between English and French. Not as bad as the Dutch bloke - if I trip on something I swear in English, but I do certain things in French style. (like always turning up late :p) I still dream in French and sometimes think through problems in French though!
 
Tombo said:
Weeaboo scum ;)
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Mods, any chance of moving this to SC so we can get away from the children and idiots? For some people this is an interesting subject due to the incredible changes it brings in behaviour and we're having this spoiled with brainless one-liners and bacteria trying to wind people up miles more intellectually superior than anything they can ever aspire to be. If not, just lock it and I'll rewrite something in SC.
 
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My aunt married a French man. He still has a very strong French accent and his spoken English isn't the best still. They find it easier to talk French when he is in a mood or something is happening quickly.

My flatmate at the moment is Italian but his Mum is Welsh and he says that he just gets into the English mind state and thinks in English and not Italian.

Guess it's down to how the person works or which ever language is easier for the person to use a the given time/moment.
 
I find we're quite adept at adapting, depending on whom I'm with. I tend to swear in English for emphasis, rather than offence... London trait? Northerners don't seem to do it like I do. When I lived in Korea, I thought I remained British throughout... but when I came back people pointed out things I did differently... and I was only there for a few months. Maybe we adapt to blur in.... to protect ourselves from standing out.

Shoseki said:
Well, I'm bored of english "culture", learning as much japanese as I can, listening to japanese music 24/7, read my japanese book on the train every day...
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あなたは日本語がわかりますか。

漢字はとても難しですね。
 
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