Poll: Should the UK join the Euro?

[Dev2]

With today's news that the pound has reached an all time low against the evil from the continent, I reiterate my earlier thoughts that this whole global economic crisis has been masterminded and instigated by those that want a single Euro state. Engineer parity and many arguments against disappear. This is a manipulation on a grand scale and I hope that our Irish brothers throw out another arm of the controlling machine, the constitution, in their next referendum. At least their government keep their promises.

No to the Euro, no to Europe and no to the Fascist One World Government!

Global conspiracy theory on the economic crisis? Please mate elaborate on this.

 

[Greenlizard0]

Right, in a nutshell why shouldn't we adopt the Euro? I'm not bothered about drivel reasons such as identity (I know who I am, I don't need a coin to reinforce this). If it helps our economy what's so bad about it?

 

[Sinny]

No.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Right, in a nutshell why shouldn't we adopt the Euro? I'm not bothered about drivel reasons such as identity (I know who I am, I don't need a coin to reinforce this). If it helps our economy what's so bad about it?

it would in no way help the economy, in any way at all. So thats fairly decent reason. if we get the euro you'd get paid, slightly more but it would be worth less, the price of everything would go up in the same ratio as everything else, we'd still not be making any money as a country and we'd still have expensive imports and smeg all to export.


Take a pound coin out of your pocket, now, do something insane, tell youself its a euro, did the economy just fix itself? no? neither will calling the rest of our coins euro's. Euro's, pounds, they are just a representation of the valuables banks own, gold, silver, other commodities, the problem is, change pound to euro's doesn't increase the amount of Gold in our vaults, the amount of gold we are generating via exporting good in exchange for gold or whatever that country uses to represent gold. Neither will it change our massively flawed spending patterns or create new jobs that will fix the economy.

As for AJUK, with his normal biggotted anti rest of the world hatred, what makes your idea stupid is if this was orchestrated on a worldwide scale just to get us into the European union, which would maybe make us stronger as a whole compared to Asia/America(so why would they help in this fraud?), changing to the Euro wouldn't fix our problems, the problem would be their after, so the plan makes no sense.

 

[Chimerical]

I heard some politician on Question Time say that the ideal time to join the Euro was five years ago, when switching would have been "most beneficial to us". Now I now nothing about that, but I realise that switching now is pointless.

Has the ideal moment passed, and now we're kind of screwed and have to put up with it basically?

 

[dangerstat]

Pretty definitive poll I guess, No is what we think

 

[rypt]

I voted yes, in a few decades simply because I'm hoping we'll re-start out empire, take over whole of europe and force everyone to use the same currency, called the pound though

 

[Mulder]

Pretty definitive poll I guess, No is what we think

I really hope that these forums are a microcosm of British society. Being a forum for PC overclockers, I doubt it.

 

[Dev2]

it would in no way help the economy, in any way at all. So thats fairly decent reason. if we get the euro you'd get paid, slightly more but it would be worth less, the price of everything would go up in the same ratio as everything else, we'd still not be making any money as a country and we'd still have expensive imports and smeg all to export.

Actually no, its more of a cost/benefit ratio debate. i.e would the benefits outweigh the costs. Changing to the Euro would have some advantages saying otherwise does not remove them from the argument.

There is some truth to the second part of what you say. However its in need of clarity. You don't mention entry rates or any numbers. Should the UK entry rate be too high, the UK will be uncompetitive albeit instantly wealthier and the free market will begin to adjust this. Should it be to low, UKers will find themselves a little poorer but attractive to investment and subsequently the free market will shift it back up.

Take a pound coin out of your pocket, now, do something insane, tell youself its a euro, did the economy just fix itself? no? neither will calling the rest of our coins euro's. Euro's, pounds, they are just a representation of the valuables banks own, gold, silver, other commodities, the problem is, change pound to euro's doesn't increase the amount of Gold in our vaults, the amount of gold we are generating via exporting good in exchange for gold or whatever that country uses to represent gold. Neither will it change our massively flawed spending patterns or create new jobs that will fix the economy.

Again, partial truths but overly simplistic. Indeed currency represents wealth and you are right about the Euro change over not fixing the economy. The UK current economic woes aren't about its currency. However that doesn't mean there won't be some permanent economic gains from a change over.

As for AJUK, with his normal biggotted anti rest of the world hatred, what makes your idea stupid is if this was orchestrated on a worldwide scale just to get us into the European union, which would maybe make us stronger as a whole compared to Asia/America(so why would they help in this fraud?), changing to the Euro wouldn't fix our problems, the problem would be their after, so the plan makes no sense.

I agree that AJUKs theory makes no sense. Don't argue just listen to what he has to say first. He never jumps into specifics just vague terms of a global conspiracy to force Britain into the Euro because it would . . . satisfy the need of the 'Froggers' and Germans to control Europe. The EU is not about peace and reconciliation for AJUK its the fourth Reich. WWII never ended . . . it simply transcended to WWIII manifesting itself as 50 years of unprecedented peace and prosperity in Europe *X-Files Music* ~faint whisper~ the truth is out there.

 

[Dave]

Yes, but simply because it would mean when I go back to France (which I do about 4/5 times a year) I wouldn't have to fiddle about with exchange

 

[nikebee]

I would need some unbiased information on the advantages and disadvantages joining would bring.

 

[Admiral Huddy]

Just because it's heading for on par, doesn't mean it's a viable option. Joining would just mean any future growth in our own economy would just help stabilise the rest of Europe, which have weaker economys.. Look what happend to Germany. The Mark was once one of the stronger currencies.

It would also mean certain death to the already shrinking MMs

 

[danielmp007]

We should join when i have bought loads previously so my money is worth a little bit more

 

[Tute]

Right, in a nutshell why shouldn't we adopt the Euro? I'm not bothered about drivel reasons such as identity (I know who I am, I don't need a coin to reinforce this). If it helps our economy what's so bad about it?

On the flip side, why should we?

It's not going to help with any recession we "are" or "are going" to go through. People aren't going to spend any more or less if we use the Euro.

Also, it's going to cause a rise in prices. If, for example, something costing £1.99 was converted to €1.75 then we're not going to be charged that are we? It's going to be "rounded" to €1.99.

Plus I believe it's a move towards an EU Super-State anyway, which is something we should avoid at all costs.

 

[Pneumonic]

Just to Balance things up.... why we should join the Euro..

The Economic Arguments
Since joining the Euro is essentially an Economic decision then the Economic arguments are the most important. Perhaps the most obvious Economic argument is the “Transaction Costs” argument. By joining the Euro we will cut the costs of each transaction that we make with Euro-zone. Since most of our trade is with the Euro-zone the money we would save from cutting the cost of each transaction will be significant. Every time a business exports or imports something from the E.U. the business has to exchange sterling in to foreign currencies. If the Euro is introduced these costs would disappear overnight.

Rip Off Britain:
The price of goods in Britain are on the whole higher than in europe, take for example cars. A single currency would allow any consumer in the UK to see exactly what price cars were in Germany or France. This transparency would mean that companies could not get away with charging different prices in different countries.

An opponent of the Euro might say that these arguments are not particularly convincing. Transaction costs are not that high and real price transparency would be hard to achieve when each country still has very different tax regimes. On their own these arguments are not particularly convincing. Undeniably the most important and most persuasive economic argument for the Euro has to do with trade and currency fluctuations.

Every business must take risk into consideration when deciding on its strategy. The more risk involved with a certain strategy the higher return the business requires to make that strategy viable. Risk is a bad thing, something that any company would try and minimise. This is especially true of companies that to business abroad. Every business venture that involves foreign trade is exposed to the risk of currency fluctuations. If a company imports components from Germany and sterling suddenly falls then it is the company will lose money. The uncertainty of currency fluctuations means that many trading opportunities with the Euro-zone are lost. For domestic companies this means higher costs for components that could be bought in Europe and less opportunities for companies to export their goods to Europe. This means fewer jobs in the UK and higher prices in the shops. Foreign companies such as Nissan and Toyota face a choice between investing in the UK, with the risks of currency fluctuations, and investing in the Euro-zone. Direct foreign investment like this is very important to the UK economy. Entire towns, such as Sunderland with its Nissan factory, depend on foreign investment and being outside the Euro prejudices these investments.

Most of our foreign trade is with the Euro-zone. This is not to say that that trade with other countries would suffer if we joined the Euro. At the moment we negotiate trade treaties as part of the EU. Joining a single currency strengthens our position and the negotiating position of the EU.

The Political Arguments
Most of the Economic arguments argue for the Euro. The political arguments are, in general, set against the Euro. If we join the Euro is argued that we will lose our sovereignty to un-elected “Brussels Bureaucrats”.

If the UK wants to become further integrated in to the EU then the Euro is an essential stepping-stone. However I think that the arguments over whether the UK should become further integrated into the EU are irrelevant. The Euro can stand as a single issue. If we join the Euro we do not need to become further integrated into the EU. It therefore means you cannot argue against the Euro because it allows further integration. We can join the Euro andstop there. We should assess the political implications of the decision to join the Euro on its own merits.

Undoubtedly joining the Euro will be a diminishment of National Sovereignty. As a country we will no longer be able to set our own interest rates and we will no longer be able to control our own currency. An un-elected body, the European Central Bank, will decide all this.

However at the moment our elected representatives and the government do not decide the interest rates. In the field of monetary policy the Bank of England has far more power than the government. Many people in the country believe that this is the best way to make policy. Lots of countries, including the United States, have un-elected bodies deciding monetary policy. Therefore it seems reasonable to accept that an un-elected body should decide our monetary policy.

The principle underlying European integration is that of subsidiarity. This basically means that Europe should take the appropriate decisions at the appropriate levels of government. This means that Europe decides to negotiate trade treaties with America on a collective level since together we have more clout. On the other hand waste collection is organised by County Councils since this is more efficient than organising them from Brussels. There are many cases where we have accepted the subsidiarity principle and where it has benefited the UK. It therefore seems sensible to accept it when dealing with economic issues. The economic arguments show that it is better to decide monetary policy on a Europe wide level and therefore it seems sensible to accept this.

Personal prejudices against the Euro
Many of the reasons people give against joining the Euro are quite personal. People want to keep the Pound and the Queens head on their £5 notes rather than having funny “German notes”. I think there are two personal reasons why people want to keep the Pound: sentimentality and xenophobia.

When the UK decided to decimalise there were many people who were dead set against this because of their emotional attachment to shillings and guineas. The sentimental attachment to the Pound should not stand in the way of progress. There is not much else that can be said. If you value a sentimental attachment to a piece of paper and a couple of shiny metal things over a stronger country and a better standard of living then there is not much I can say that would persuade you otherwise.

I think that many of the tabloid papers approach to the Euro have simply been designed to stir up xenophobic prejudices. Virtually all of the “Euro stories” in the Mail and in the Sun have simply been rants against so called Brussels Bureaucrats and of course the Germans.

But for those people who don't read the Mail or the Sun the Euro will be a great personal advantage. Every time you go on holiday you won't need to worry about currency exchange or traveller cheques. You will actually know how much you are paying for your hotel and your meal.

 

[bam0]

No it is a rubbish time to join the Euro, we would want to set a parity between the £ and € to where it was a couple of years back or so. Imagine if your salary was converted to euros at the current rate we'd be severely worse off than the rest of Europe.

The time to join was when everyone else did, most of arguments I hear against joining just smack of jingoism. Hopefully the plummeting pound against the Euro and Dollar will make people in the UK wake up realise that their country isn't as important in the world as they think it is.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Rip Off Britain:
The price of goods in Britain are on the whole higher than in europe, take for example cars. A single currency would allow any consumer in the UK to see exactly what price cars were in Germany or France. This transparency would mean that companies could not get away with charging different prices in different countries.

Just the first point to pick up out of that, Britains cars are right hand drive and for a more limited market than across the rest of Europe/the World so that will almost always make them more expensive to produce as you cannot use the same economies of scale. So I could see the prices in Germany or France were cheaper, that doesn't mean I would actually be able to get much cheaper prices here, I'd still either have to go there for a LHD or accept I'm paying a bit more for RHD here.

Incidentally risk is not necessarily a bad thing, risk that you haven't foreseen or haven't adequately prepared for is a bad thing. Risk is opportunity by another name in business terms.

I've not voted on the poll because my option of 'not at present but perhaps in the future' isn't represented. I like the Pound but I'm not altogether against the idea of joining the Euro.

 

[gumbald]

Can we leave the EU too? Why should they decide our laws?

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

i say join the US

 

[Tute]

Pneumonic, none of those are good reasons to join the Euro.

And the article didn't help it's case when it started with the "Xenophobia" crap. That's always the first card pro-Euro people play when they're being beaten in a discussion.