Menzies killing verdict limitations

What i love about this thread is all these "armchair" police that only experience of that sort of situation is tom Chancey movies and Andy Mcnab books.
The faults in this operation were:
*information gathering was floored as it was gathered by people more used to finding drug dealers than spotting terrorists.
*Information relaying was poor to say the least, vital information wasnt comincated quickly enoth or clearly enoth.
*The police heads, they wished to prove they could do a op with out mi5 being the in control.
*Jean Charles de Menezes, it was his own fault as all armed police unlike special forces have to work to a set of sop's which are, a announcement, time for the target to react, then take action. i.e armed police stop or security forces stop. Both officers reported after the challenge jean made a sudden movement instead of stopping which = his own bloody fault.

Also i can bet no-one in this forum has been in a situation like this or similar. so how can anyone here challenge and come out with the rubbish that is being said in this thread.
I as a soldier hav been in this situation in basra last year and the saying that fits this situation well is this "better to be tried by twelve than carry by six"
also hindsight is a great thing none on earth can tell if someone is wearing a device under a jacket unless you remove it. and no terroist is is gonna wait for special forces to take of his jacket check the legitmacey of the device. put the jacket back on him then shoot him.
I think the one thing we can learn from this incident is let mi5 do the counter terrorism and keep the police on the speed camera duty.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
MI5 have neither powers of arrest and do not, as I recall, carry firearms.
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U really believe that did you not notice that during the terrorist arrest on the failed bombing that the entry "police " were gas masks on civy clothing.
and i did say that mi5 would be armed they would be doing the surveillance the mos likely people to do the actual contacts would be s.i.s if they had clearance or if push came to shove so19 under sis or mi5 control.
 
chumpit said:
U really believe that did you not notice that during the terrorist arrest on the failed bombing that the entry "police " were gas masks on civy clothing.
and i did say that mi5 would be armed they would be doing the surveillance the mos likely people to do the actual contacts would be s.i.s if they had clearance or if push came to shove so19 under sis or mi5 control.
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sis = MI6 AFAIK and SO19 is now called CO19.
 
dirtydog said:
sis = MI6 AFAIK and SO19 is now called CO19.
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under the legislation since the northern Ireland troubles mi5 and mi6 have had permission to act on UK soil in a counter terrorist and country smuggling way.
but i didn't know about so19 rename.
sis in all the security service ranging from mi5 to northern Ireland branch put to gether so the spend of information can happen allot fast so in essence sis is the active service units of the intelligence community.
 
chumpit said:
under the legislation since the northern Ireland troubles mi5 and mi6 have had permission to act on UK soil in a counter terrorist and country smuggling way.
but i didn't know about so19 rename.
sis in all the security service ranging from mi5 to northern Ireland branch put to gether so the spend of information can happen allot fast so in essence sis is the active service units of the intelligence community.
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SIS is the official name of MI6, the foreign intelligence service.

The Security Service is the official name of MI5, the domestic intelligence service.
 
dirtydog said:
As I am a citizen and he is my servant (a police officer) then yes I am.
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Sorry to burst your bubble u are not a citizen (check your passport) you are a subject of the crown and he is a your appointment peer and their for is only liable to a representative of the crown (judge or some appointed by the queen such as the independent police commission) or the queen her self.
 
chumpit said:
Sorry to burst your bubble u are not a citizen (check your passport) you are a subject of the crown and he is a your appointment peer and their for is only liable to a representative of the crown (judge or some appointed by the queen such as the independent police commission) or the queen her self.
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Well whatever, would you or any average person rather a) go to prison and lose your juicy six figure pension or b) lose face and be forgotten about in a short time.

I think the answer is clear.
 
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