Should we bail out Landi & Jag?

Do they need bailing out? Or just a supply of usual credit being dry whilst the bank sort there stuff out? The JLR business model is pretty good and they have some fantastic products. Look at the Jag performance this years Q1 qith XF and the last 3 years or so of LandRover, LR made £500 million PROFIT last year. Its a cashflow issue, not a total screw up like GM or Chrysler. They have commited spending £700 million on green tech R&D, so 1Bn is not a huge amount of money tbh. Its pretty much a UK based company in terms of resource, labour and supply chain, so its just a supply of credit to churn through the system, not sit on a foreign island.

But then Im biased. They went go under from this, just reign everything in, reduce more of the project development budgets, carry over more stuff from previous models and extend some of the programme gateways. They have several rather promising products getting closer to production but need shorterm cash.
 
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numnutz said:
Yes - My partner works there! JLR rushed the XF in order to save the company - sound business?
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One of the best cars you can buy today, sounds good business to me.

Just think what they could so if they weren't rushed. Oh, maybe the LRX and a Range Rover thats 500kg lighter.
 
If a business is not sound, it should fail.

If I get into financial **** due to my own miss management of my affairs, I neither expect or would want a bail out.

The thing that sickens me about this recent financial crisis is how all of a sudden, the Gov't can talk of throwing £Billions at whatever, yet not so very long back, when times were supposedly good, we could not afford things such as decent pay for Nurses, Police and Our Armed Forces.

The Automotive industry is over grown, under efficient and in need of a good purge.

If Ford, GM, et al go **** up that's their fault for not keeping up with the Germans it seems!

Turkeys are hardly going to vote for Christmas alas.
 
why should the tax payer bail out an unprofitable company, it maybe large and employ a lot of people but it is fundamentally wrong for the government to give them handouts, we might as well just have state owned industry the way things are going.

What annoys me is that the government have all this money to spank buying banks and giving handouts to iceland, but they cant give prison officers a decent pay rise to make up for the years of effective pay cuts and keep cutting the budgets in the Ministy of Justice despite having the highest number of offenders and prisoners ever.
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
If a business is not sound, it should fail.

If I get into financial **** due to my own miss management of my affairs, I neither expect or would want a bail out.
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This, the shareholders/owners of these companies made massive amounts through the upside through greed, didnt plan for the cycle ending and are now suffering, should we continue to support them so that they can make money when the economy goes down as well?

yes its a sob story for everyone that loses their job but if we had at least a half arsed welfare state (see scanadanavian countries etc) then it would be less of an issue and the companies could be allowed to fail
 
I do honestly believe that LR Jag is essentially sound. The trouble is, like 99% of businesses it requires a certain amount of credit to survive and is having difficulty achieving this. I think Fox is right with his first point. The XF, Range Rover, Discovery and possibly Freelander are all class leaders, or at least can hold their own against zee Germans. In some ways, accepted economics can go out the window in this current crisis and the cost of this loan is a lot lower than the cost of letting them go under, especially when you consider all the local, British-owned suppliers that would go down with them through no fault of their own...
 
Comes down to this, are we in a Capitalist or Communist society? Seems to be the former until it goes **** up....
 
Mad old tory said:
The XF, Range Rover, Discovery and possibly Freelander are all class leaders, or at least can hold their own against zee Germans.
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On the other hand, they are far less popular than the Toyota Land Cruiser where reliability and ruggedness are essential requirements.

Land Rovers are now designed and entirely unsuitable for the shopping and school runs, as are zee German equivalents from Mercedes, BMW & Porsche - so long, it's been good to know y'all, now it's time to go.
 
What I don't understand is a little while back I remember hearing about record sales and what not, what happened to all that profit?
 
MrMoonX said:
why should the tax payer bail out an unprofitable company, it maybe large and employ a lot of people but it is fundamentally wrong for the government to give them handouts, we might as well just have state owned industry the way things are going.
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Erm....ever heard of British Leyland? Doesn't sound like much of an answer if you look at the crap that company churned out.
 
[TW]Fox;13147161 said:
This isn't really the case, is it?
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I wouldn't waste your breath. Everybody made good amounts during the boom and everybody is suffering during the crunch as the main investors in the stockmarket are institutional, ie pension funds and the like. Got a pension? Yeah, thought so, stop whingeing about these mythical greedy shareholders, you're one of them!
 
R420LA6X2/4MNA said:
The thing that sickens me about this recent financial crisis is how all of a sudden, the Gov't can talk of throwing £Billions at whatever, yet not so very long back, when times were supposedly good, we could not afford things such as decent pay for Nurses, Police and Our Armed Forces.
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That's because the cost of bailing them out would be lower than the cost of not bailing them out.
 
Basher said:
That's because the cost of bailing them out would be lower than the cost of not bailing them out.
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I genuinelly beleive that this situation and how things work is too complicated for most people to fully appreciate, hence the OMG FAT CATS LET THEM DIE LOLZ comments.
 
As a Jag owner - Bail them out, at least until my waranty runs out :p

Seriously though, I think Tata have enough money to stop them going under, surely it should be their responsiblity - being the parent company.
 
Rob_S said:
As a Jag owner - Bail them out, at least until my waranty runs out :p

Seriously though, I think Tata have enough money to stop them going under, surely it should be their responsiblity - being the parent company.
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They'll be interested in whatever can be done to ensure maximum revenue generation and upside on that. That doesn't neccessarily include keeping everyone in a job in the UK.
 
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