Deaths in Gaza - Use of Israeli Force

Class 04 said:
Indigenous people in America receiving land rights? Indigenous peoples should be granting rights, not being given them! But history is as it is.
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The irony is not lost on me. But as you say, history is as it is.

When you say plenty, there is really only a minority and when Israel speak od themselves they never speak of a nation but of a race; 'they' want to wipe us off the map, etc. Israel refers to itself as a land of the jews that muslims want to destroy.
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Israel is indeed the land of the Jews that Muslims want to destroy. Even the Muslims freely admit this.

However, it is also the land of the Israelis - and not every Israeli is a Jew.

The whole idea of the country was homogeneity, give or take, as opposed to, say, America, which was founded on a political idea - or on most old countries on simply historical development (namely chance) or failing that 19th century Nationalism.
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The whole idea of the country was to restore the Jewish homeland. There was no intention of excluding non-Jews; in fact, the Jews extended citizenship to all Arabs within their newly re-created state.
 
Keltik THC said:
My grandfather was based in Palestine from around 1944 onwards, and was attacked numerous times by Isreali terrorists, the media makes no mention of this just as they do not show you the real footage of where the Isreali air strikes recently hit.
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What absolute nonsense. The media is full of footage recording Israel's immoral attacks on civilians and civilian areas.

Click here for a sample.
 
Class 04 said:
Simply disproportionate. Hamas have always commited small scale strikes. The level of retaliation (massive airstrikes) is disproportionate. This requires no specific expertise. Every question that comes before a court is never answered by an expert, but a judge. They are not factual questions but legal ones; experts only provide evidence.

As such, in our legal system, judges make law, not experts.

And I am not a foreign Lawyer, I am qualified in England & Wales, and work in London, where here we are call ourselves lawyers, not solicitors, for reasons I do not know (though partly attributable to the fact that some of us work for US firms and global US firms do have substantial presence in the commercial legal scene now).
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You'd really be more happy with a tit-for-tat system? One mortar from a palestinian gets one back from israel? You'd still be howling that Israel were killing civilians because of the human-shield tactics employed by the palestinians.

How about 'arresting' the terrorists? Well even if Israel sets up little covert task forces to go and arrest people who fire rockets, and did manage to hack into HamasNet, look up its list of 'active participants,' find out who launched an attack and where they were going to be staying for the next 48 hours they could... oh wait.

Well, they could just do a full-scale invasion and use superior numbers and force to capture and arrest a large group of terrorists whose ranks include suicide bombers. Oh but then Israel would have invaded someone else's sovereign territory and that would make them evil too.
 
Class 04 said:
Simply disproportionate. Hamas have always commited small scale strikes. The level of retaliation (massive airstrikes) is disproportionate. This requires no specific expertise. Every question that comes before a court is never answered by an expert, but a judge. They are not factual questions but legal ones; experts only provide evidence.

As such, in our legal system, judges make law, not experts.

And I am not a foreign Lawyer, I am qualified in England & Wales, and work in London, where here we are call ourselves lawyers, not solicitors, for reasons I do not know (though partly attributable to the fact that some of us work for US firms and global US firms do have substantial presence in the commercial legal scene now).
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(As regards my comment about you possibly being foreign, and your reply, fair enough. Hope no offence was taken. :))

Nevermind the law, this is a debate between you and others on a messageboard. This is a not a court of law; we are not confined the constraints of the law here, and we are free to use the power of our intellects rather than be fettered by the unwieldy tools of precedent and edict!

Now I ask you again, given that you are ascribing very specific descriptions to the Israeli handiwork, on what basis are you sufficiently knowledgeable so to do? We all have opinions and are entitled both to hold and voice them, but you have not started this thread from the standpoint of somebody giving opinions. Rather, you have acted as though somehow empowered with relevant authority, and I am therefore challenging you to back that up.
 
Deadly Ferret said:
(As regards my comment about you possibly being foreign, and your reply, fair enough. Hope no offence was taken. :))

Nevermind the law, this is a debate between you and others on a messageboard. This is a not a court of law; we are not confined the constraints of the law here, and we are free to use the power of our intellects rather than be fettered by the unwieldy tools of precedent and edict!

Now I ask you again, given that you are ascribing very specific descriptions to the Israeli handiwork, on what basis are you sufficiently knowledgeable so to do? We all have opinions and are entitled both to hold and voice them, but you have not started this thread from the standpoint of somebody giving opinions. Rather, you have acted as though somehow empowered with relevant authority, and I am therefore challenging you to back that up.
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Well, I think law is a decent example of how to solve disputes.

It is society creating a series of rules to govern the behaviour impartially between various actors. I thought it would be an interesting thought experiment to see why we suddenly feel differently when we consider the actions of whole states, as opposed to individuals. International law is very much an academic, developing area, of course, but it is interesting nonetheless.

My specific reason for feeling it is disproportionate is based partly on fact (more killed then death recieved) and that the reaction is not going to do any good; terrorists do not act like states, you cannot terorise them back because they are not democratically accountable. It is much more likely than bombing Palestine is going to increase not decrease support for the terrorists, especiall given they were themselves democratically elected.

So it seems the actions are to me are just lashing out, in the old realists fashion that America did with 911. It is disproportionate.
 
States must rise about terrorism.

Killing only breeds more killing.

We have to admit that we need to negotiate with terrorists. Like in N Ireland.

Peace is the only way.
 
Class 04 said:
States must rise about terrorism.

Killing only breeds more killing.

We have to admit that we need to negotiate with terrorists. Like in N Ireland.

Peace is the only way.
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I wouldn't say that. The brutality in the handling of the Iranian embassy siege helped prevent foreign terrorism in the uk for quite some time.
 
Class 04 said:
States must rise about terrorism.

Killing only breeds more killing.

We have to admit that we need to negotiate with terrorists. Like in N Ireland.

Peace is the only way.
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We should never ever negotiate with terrorist, all that will do is prove that it works and encourge an almost exponential growth in terrorism
 
dangerstat said:
We should never ever negotiate with terrorist, all that will do is prove that it works and encourge an almost exponential growth in terrorism
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hey .. gonna ask you 1 simple Q .. ??

Do you have eyes ???

Israel now killed about 300 one .. and you said

(We should never ever negotiate with terrorist)

who is the real terrorist now ???

first explane what does " terrorist " mean .. it's mean kill people however what they are or where .. just killing killing ..

now Israel killing .. so ..

who's the real terrorist now . ? :confused:
 
Israel in my eyes have always been and will continue to be a wretched mound of puss and I hold nothing but contempt for them and everything they stand for. As far as I'm concerned Palestine has always been given the rough ride for absolutely the wrong reasons.
 
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