Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Sankari · 29 Dec 2008 at 16:05

Gilo said:
You have mentioned that Egypt are also blockading, can I ask why you are singling out Israel in this point?

I am singling out Israel purely within this context because people were asking for evidence of Israel's involvement in the starving of Palestinians. Obviously Israel is not solely to blame.

Moreover, I do not believe that Israel has any formal policy or intention of starving the Palestinians to death, and Egypt has plenty of blood on her hands as well (though of course, so do the Palestinians).

There is no high moral ground for anyone here.

RDM · 29 Dec 2008 at 16:34

IceBus said:
Throwing stones at a tank or being out past a curfew is not uncommon. So you see no problem in locking children up with adult murderers/rapists etc?

As I said, the vast majority are 16+ and so aren't really children. Also if it is the Israeli's locking them up are they in general prisons or with adult palestinians also picked up for the above? If so the emotive "locking children up with adult murderers/rapists" is a bit of a non issue really as they would be locked up with adult palestinians also in prison for "throwing stones at a tank or being out past curfew".

Gilo · 29 Dec 2008 at 17:08

Evangelion said:
I am singling out Israel purely within this context because people were asking for evidence of Israel's involvement in the starving of Palestinians. Obviously Israel is not solely to blame.

Moreover, I do not believe that Israel has any formal policy or intention of starving the Palestinians to death, and Egypt has plenty of blood on her hands as well (though of course, so do the Palestinians).

There is no high moral ground for anyone here.

I just thought it was strange that Egypt was mentioned a few posts before then completly taken out of the equation so thanks for clarifying, as after reading these threads a lot of the posts are making the Palestinians out to be completly blameless (a point which you have addressed above).

Sankari · 29 Dec 2008 at 17:19

No probs.

I am, at heart, pro-Israel. However, while I support her in principle, I do not always support her in practice.

Yaser1987 · 29 Dec 2008 at 18:15

i think if Israel still opening fire .. may be it will be big war between arabs .. and Israel ..

Repta · 29 Dec 2008 at 18:21

Yaser1987 said:
i think if Israel still opening fire .. may be it will be big war between arabs .. and Israel ..

last time that happened it only lasted 6 days...

Tefal · 29 Dec 2008 at 18:28

Yaser1987 said:
i think if Israel still opening fire .. may be it will be big war between arabs .. and Israel ..

And the Arabs will have their asses handed to them again.

Reckon they can last a full week this time?

Yaser1987 · 29 Dec 2008 at 18:37

Tefal said:
And the Arabs will have their asses handed to them again.

Reckon they can last a full week this time?

hey .. when Israel fight note that they Were taken to approve arab's government .. may be because .. they hate each other ..

so .. :confused:

IceBus · 29 Dec 2008 at 19:06

RDM said:
As I said, the vast majority are 16+ and so aren't really children. Also if it is the Israeli's locking them up are they in general prisons or with adult palestinians also picked up for the above? If so the emotive "locking children up with adult murderers/rapists" is a bit of a non issue really as they would be locked up with adult palestinians also in prison for "throwing stones at a tank or being out past curfew".

Not in the eyes of international law or UNHCR Convention on the rights of the child.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm said:
Article 1
For the purposes of the present Convention, a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.

They are locked up in general prisons. And they're held in Palestinian jails only as Israel prosecute Israeli citizens under a completely different justice system than Palestinians, with crazy provisions like lawyers and access to basic rights. I don't see how locking children up is a non-issue.

RDM · 29 Dec 2008 at 19:19

IceBus said:
Not in the eyes of international law or UNHCR Convention on the rights of the child.

Unless the age of majority is lower in Palestine. I have no idea what it is.

IceBus said:
They are locked up in general prisons. And they're held in Palestinian jails only as Israel prosecute Israeli citizens under a completely different justice system than Palestinians, with crazy provisions like lawyers and access to basic rights.

So they are more likely to be locked up with other palestinians held due to the uprisings etc rather than the previously more emotive "adult murderers and rapists".

IceBus said:
I don't see how locking children up is a non-issue.

Because the majority of them are 16+ and probably considered adults within Palestine, what is the age of majority in the palestinian territories? Isn't 16 the age in the UK where you can go to adult prison too? I just can't get all worked up about 16 year olds being sent to prison.

And while I am sure some of them are in for "throwing stones at a tank/being out after curfew" it wouldn't suprise me that some are also in for much serious offenses, especially how beloved the palestinians are of the child holding an AK47.

Sankari · 29 Dec 2008 at 19:42

Israel's Arab neighbours will not get involved in this one. Syria and Lebanon will offer their usual token support, but the others will stay well clear.

Yaser1987 · 29 Dec 2008 at 20:12

i think we're done here .. our talk it's gonna not make any ensens

so if we just .. i don't know

peace

Tefal · 29 Dec 2008 at 20:32

Yaser1987 said:
hey .. when Israel fight note that they Were taken to approve arab's government .. may be because .. they hate each other ..

so ..

again in English :/

dangerstat · 29 Dec 2008 at 20:35

Tefal said:
And the Arabs will have their asses handed to them again.

Reckon they can last a full week this time?

What makes some pretty massive assumptions Tefal, I agree with 99.5% of your posts on here, but, with modern "unconventional warefare" approaches, united Arab nations could certainly make it tricky

Tefal · 29 Dec 2008 at 20:56

dangerstat said:
What makes some pretty massive assumptions Tefal, I agree with 99.5% of your posts on here, but, with modern "unconventional warefare" approaches, united Arab nations could certainly make it tricky

Well their air force and airbases would be destroyed on the first day just like last time. along with most of their armour like last time.

So they wouldn't bother, sots them a few billions dollars in material for nothing.

Plus they can't win, if Israel is losing and really thinks they're going to lose, they'll take the nuclear option. that is of course if us and america don;t pile in too help.

no Arab state is willing to risk all that for Palestine.

They'll send em a few weapons just to make life tough for the Israeli's but they're ot going to commit any military forces any time soon.

Von Smallhausen · 29 Dec 2008 at 21:56

Class 04 said:
Israel should not exist. Scum.

By whose reckoning ?

It is a moot point though as Israel does exist and has done for 60 years and will continue to do so.

A viable, fair and just Palestinian state must be found and if they ( Israel and Palestine ) cannot be on friendly terms then they must learn to co-exist.

I have found my opinions swinging from more pro-Israel to that of the plight of the Palestinians and I am finding Israel's ability to act militarily without impunity harder and harder to take.

fraps · 29 Dec 2008 at 23:03

Tefal said:
Well their air force and airbases would be destroyed on the first day just like last time. along with most of their armour like last time.

So they wouldn't bother, sots them a few billions dollars in material for nothing.

Plus they can't win, if Israel is losing and really thinks they're going to lose, they'll take the nuclear option. that is of course if us and america don;t pile in too help.

no Arab state is willing to risk all that for Palestine.

They'll send em a few weapons just to make life tough for the Israeli's but they're ot going to commit any military forces any time soon.

Pakistan has nukes which it could use in such a scenario (God forbid), also, it does not recognise Israel

I believe the muslim nations can sort out the situation - they just need to put their house in order

Tefal · 29 Dec 2008 at 23:05

fraps said:
Pakistan has nukes which it could use in such a scenario (God forbid), also, it does not recognise Israel

personally, I believe the muslim nations can sort out the situation - they just need to put their house in order

Pakistan wants nothing to do with them. and if it did try and nuke Israel then it would have to answer to several thousand nukes provided by us and the Americans (and maybe India if they fancy some real world testing)

Does Pakistan even have missiles with enough range to reach isreal?.

Azagoth · 29 Dec 2008 at 23:22

Tefal said:
Does Pakistan even have missiles with enough range to reach isreal?.

It's a moot point, but Pakistan's Shaheen II missile has a range of 2500km (give or take a shade depending on warhead configuration) which at a stretch could just hit Israel if fired from Pakistan's Westernmost border.

Tefal · 29 Dec 2008 at 23:25

Azagoth said:
It's a moot point, but Pakistan's Shaheen II missile has a range of 2500km which at a stretch could just hit Israel if fired from Pakistan's Westernmost border.

Indeed i agree, if Pakistan ever did launch a nuclear strike on Israel it would give America Carte Blanche to exact revenge (not that Pakistan ever would, or hat a war would come to that point).

It was more curiosity about their missile tech.