GTX 285 simulated review (GTX 280 clocked to 285 speeds)

[Final8y]

And CUDA....

wheres ati's version of cuda ? /fail

There are more games to worry about than software that makes use of CUDA & the most common being Folding@home which many don't bother with.
The GPU needs Multi threaded sequential programmed software which is harder & which brings us back to the lack of multi threads apps in general even for multi core CPU which is easer to do anyway & we still don't have many.
So unless there is a CUDA apps that is important to a user then CUDA is of little use right now as there is virtually no software for it.
ATI do have there OpenCL 1.0 (Open Computing Language) version in the works plus Hydra Engine.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17958083
With NV there is no Multi GPU with out a sli mobo that may change soon with CFireX/SLI mobo NV buckling dew to CF on AMD/Intel mobos.
With NV you need to have 2 or more cards from the exact model for SLI or the other will of only be any use for PhysX or CUDA & not help out in SLI.

With ATI & Intel using Hydra Engine with the option to not need to be the same model or even the same family all will help out in MultiGPU gaming all will help out in OpenCL 1.0 (Open Computing Language)& physics is in DX11 & will run on DX11 cards in the mix both of which are open for anyone to use with out royalty & are not owned or controlled by any gfx company unlike NVs CUDA & PhysX.

OpenCL 1.0 (Open Computing Language) is an open, royality free standard that can be used in multiple platforms which allows for parallel programing of modern processors. It was created by Khronos Group (and others) but the idea purposed for OpenCL was by Apple several months ago. It was developed and ratified by 3DLABS, Activision Blizzard, AMD, Apple, ARM, Barco, Broadcom, Codeplay, Electronic Arts, Ericsson, Freescale, HI, IBM, Intel Corporation, Imagination Technologies, Kestrel Institute, Motorola, Movidia, Nokia, NVIDIA, QNX, RapidMind, Samsung, Seaweed, TAKUMI, Texas Instruments and Umea University thus creating OpenCL 1.0.

In a nutshell OpenCL allows developers to take full advantage of a diversity of multi-core processors (GPU, CPU, Cell, DSPs, etc) through an API that coordinates parallel computing and a programming language that specify those computations.

http://www.khronos.org/news/press/releases/the_khronos_group_releases_opencl_1.0_specification/

Problem is that NV want to push Proprietary CUDA so OpenCL is competing, so as to be on the safe side Nvidia will use CUDA to run OpenCL just incase OpenCL turns out to be the more popular.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1228825271885.html

I could say Where's NV version of Dx10.1 ? /fail, but that is just as unimportant as CUDA at this present time for most.

 

[uv]

If there both single core's then they should be, but if one is x2 and the other is single, then it shouldnt.

so C2D's shouldn't be benchmarked against C2Q's? Raid0 should never be included in harddrive benchmarks?

Every piece of hardware, whether it's a single P3 or a Beowulf cluster, has relevance in a benchmark, as it gives a point of reference for comparison.

 

[muppetkiller]

so C2D's shouldn't be benchmarked against C2Q's? Raid0 should never be included in harddrive benchmarks?

Every piece of hardware, whether it's a single P3 or a Beowulf cluster, has relevance in a benchmark, as it gives a point of reference for comparison.

+1

 

[muppetkiller]

Read all abbbaaaat it... Brand new tech in beats 6 month old tech shocker.

Is it new tech ?
I thought I saw it was just 2 GTX260's GPU's stuck on one card and now called GTX295.

Could be wrong as I have not been following it all that close.

But i guess by doing that you can indeed call it new tech.

 

[Richdog]

What I mean is thagt NV have had 6 months to further refine their card, and undoubtedly have X2 4870's in-house for comparison uses etc. And yes, the GTX 260 216 is around 6 months newer tech than the 4870, and was created specifically to combat it.

 

[GoRedwings19]

I got to be honest the 295 looks like an interesting prospect on paper. But from my own experiences I have a sneaking suspicion it won't be as good as I hope it will be.

While it seems to have the processing power in place to equal give or take a 4870x2 I feel the realtive lack of video graphics mem will hamper somewhat in my setup seeming it has less than say a 1gb vram 4870 or 280gtx.

For most users it wouldn't be a problem if they gamed at 1920x1200 or less as vram is not such a critical factor I assume.

For people who game at higher than these res it will need to rely on pure processing power to make up for this shortfall.

I read the article where it pitted a 295 against a 4870x2 and this vram capacity confirmed my worries. Of course in some games it doesn't make a difference and it might lead a 4870x2 yet in other circumstances the 4870x2 lead.

So the apparent lead this 295 has over a 4870x2 in certain games will be hampered by the min frame rate due to the lack of vram on the 295 if AA is applied at high res.

I remember when I tried to get a 4870 512mb to drive my monitor while it had the processing power to match and in some cases surpass a 280 gtx the lack of vram made it stuttered and lag given those drivers at the time. This time round I think there will be some elements of that in the 295 offering versus a 4870x2.

I am not convinced a 4870x2 will drive my monitor to how I would like it yet having said that the 295 convinces me even less even though it has the processing power to back it up.

I feel taht the guru3d review or the others that I have read is purely moot in my requirements but other peeps who game at 1680x1050 or 1900x1200 there are advantages even if it is marginal from my point of view. Any advantage the 295 had over say something like a 4870x2 is lost at the top end of the res spectrum.

I would much rather see some results from like 4870 1gb CF or 280gtx SLI etc. Pitting it against a single 260 or 4870 doesn't tell me anything. I know it going to be faster than the previous cards but I need a comparison to gfx card solutions of similar processing power and ability.

All this gives is more fuel to the fire of nVidia versus Ati argument for the peeps who like to engage in that sort of thing. But to the ordainary user who has no interest in that it really doesn't tell us anything about whether to go for a 4870x2, 295 and their single gpu crossfire/sli setups.

I was hoping that it would have at least 1gb vram per gpu. There is nothing compelling so far at least for me to get this over the ATI offering. Unless of course they retail it for less then the 4870x2 solution and I personally can not see that happening.

 

[oweneades]

Here here.
Let's wait for a test between a gtx295 and a 4870x2 and watch the 295 walk over it,as it has already done in a pre production test at guru3d.com

This should be noted from the Bit-tech review (and thus the guruu3d review would have had to follow the same procedures).

Nvidia will release its next high-end graphics card at CES in Las Vegas on January 8th and the company has given us the opportunity to give bit-tech’s readers a sneak peek at how the GeForce GTX 295 will perform. However, because the card is not available on the market yet, and won’t be until January 8th at the earliest, the company has asked us to adhere to a number of restrictions.

Rather than hide away from these, we decided that it would be best to put them out in the open so that you can understand why we haven’t done a full-blown performance disclosure on the card. This is what we were asked to agree to before publication:

Top 5 Games benchmarks only

Plus one other title of their choosing

No other benchmarks period

No acoustic measurements

No power measurements

No PhysX testing or benchmarks

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/12/18/first-look-nvidia-geforce-gtx-295-1792mb/1

In the review the card performed somewhere in between the GTX260 SLI setup and the GTX280 SLI setup which is a given considering its specs (anything less would have been a failure). This however means its only slightly faster than the HD4870X2 (slower in a few of the tests). Wahey - wait, no, hang on this is on games pre selected by Nvidia in the knowledge that it will perform well in these titles.

Hmmm until proper reviews are released I won't be drawing any conclusions here.

It should also be noted that sideport is still disabled on the HD4870X2 (could be a reason why we are seeing HD4870 CF beating the HD4870X2 in most reviews?!) which may offer some performance improvements.

Because the review above is basically showing off that the 4870x2 is better then all the cards, yet they fail to point out that all the other cards are single units, rather then 2. Which already shows the comparisons there doing is flawed.

How can you compare something which is vastly different?

Its like comparing Crysis to Duck Shot.

The review is completely relevant as it is showing Nvidias fastest consumer grade GPU vs ATI's fastest consumer grade GPU, End of story.

The fact that the HD4870X2 is two gpus on one pcb is irrelevant. It takes up 1 slot on the motherboard and works out of the box (doesn't require CF to be setup or two cards to be installed). Simply put to the end consumer the HD4870X2 acts and is a single card.

 

[londonbairn]

I got to be honest the 295 looks like an interesting prospect on paper. But from my own experiences I have a sneaking suspicion it won't be as good as I hope it will be.

It's not that interesting, they haven't made an effort in at least putting 2 cores on 1 PCB, they've done the usual sellotape two cards together to create a furnace. This is why I would be reluctant to get a 295 now...

 

[GoRedwings19]

Well at the very least looking a the pre sample unless they seriously change that case which shrouds the pcb it will radiate the heat into your case.

So even if they could keep the card to about under 90c under load then you guarantee your overall internal operating temps are going to go up.

People often comment on the 280, 4870x2 and 4870 load temps but it wouldn't suprise me if the 295 is overall warmer than this lot under load. I am hoping nVidia proves me wrong and it only reaches 65 under load but I have never seen any nVidia dual gpu solution that was reasonable temps wise without the assistance of watercooling.

 

[MR.B]

Well at the very least looking a the pre sample unless they seriously change that case which shrouds the pcb it will radiate the heat into your case.

So even if they could keep the card to about under 90c under load then you guarantee your overall internal operating temps are going to go up.

People often comment on the 280, 4870x2 and 4870 load temps but it wouldn't suprise me if the 295 is overall warmer than this lot under load. I am hoping nVidia proves me wrong and it only reaches 65 under load but I have never seen any nVidia dual gpu solution that was reasonable temps wise without the assistance of watercooling.

You have a 2560x1600 monitor like me dont you Red? I'm worried about the less RAM too. Seriously dont know why NV bother to make high-end cards like this with not enough RAM for the high res monitors they're suited for (9800GX2).
But i'm still going to get a 295 - 896MB x2 might just cut it. But if the memory is a problem it will go back, but i deff wont be getting it from OCUK as they wont allow that. Anyway i'll let you know how it is if you want. I've already had every other high end card around at the moment including 4870X2 (which i sold due to amazingly **** drivers) so i can do a good comparison.

And the cooling on the 295 is meant to be very good, better than other dual GPU cards, but i'm not too bothered about that as my case has a massive fan on the side.

 

[RizlaKing]

So as i see it all the nvidia fanboys have got all excited over this card because it might finally beat the 4870X2 . It is being released a couple of months ahead of Ati's refresh where i am sure any performance increase from this card will disappear. What disappoints me most about this card is it is just the same as before nvidia havn't even tried to go down another road despite the fact the one they are on has it's end in sight and now would be the perfect time for them to go in another direction. Seems to me in the medium term at least Ati has the advantage and nvidia are going to be playing catch up which i am not sure will end up good for us the customer. For such a large company i don't understand why nvidia are not trying something new rather then the old bolt together approach of the 295.

 

[willhub]

ATi done have plans for a refresh now though.

 

[MR.B]

So as i see it all the nvidia fanboys have got all excited over this card because it might finally beat the 4870X2 . It is being released a couple of months ahead of Ati's refresh where i am sure any performance increase from this card will disappear. What disappoints me most about this card is it is just the same as before nvidia havn't even tried to go down another road despite the fact the one they are on has it's end in sight and now would be the perfect time for them to go in another direction. Seems to me in the medium term at least Ati has the advantage and nvidia are going to be playing catch up which i am not sure will end up good for us the customer. For such a large company i don't understand why nvidia are not trying something new rather then the old bolt together approach of the 295.

Whys it matter if it's 2 PCB's stuck together? it's still single slot, same type of size as the X2, and the performance will still be good. You cant even see it!

And it's funny you talk about fanboys, when immature X2 owners like yourself are popping into this thread to bash the 295. Upset you wont have the fastest card anymore?
Incase you aint noticed this type of stuff always happens with GPU's, and then the fanboys on the side that loses the performance crown bitch about it. If things were the other way around and this was ATI i'm sure the NV kiddies would be doing the same. Pathetic.

 

[Rimsy]

Hilarious. First thread I see on this forum of '09 and its yet more embaressing ATI centric fanboyism. Some things just dont change.
Happy new year you strange little men of the OCUK graphics card forum!

 

[Montegue]

No it's not pointless in the slightest... it is ATI's fastest enthusiast-class card sold as a single solution, and can rightly be compared to NV's leading enthusiast-class card. That it is essentially two cards has nothing to do with it, and it's NV's fault for not having a comparable solution to compare it to.

LOL what a load of crockery, the inards of the x2 aren't exactly comparable to the inards or the nv top line card are they. Foolish to even think they are.

 

[Final8y]

Hilarious. First thread I see on this forum of '09 and its yet more embaressing ATI centric fanboyism. Some things just dont change.
Happy new year you strange little men of the OCUK graphics card forum!

That comment saying more about you than anyone here seeing as both sides are as bad as each other & you become they very thing your calling others by pointing out a particular side with out any reasoned argument as to why

 

[GoRedwings19]

Mr B>Yeah I have the same monitor as you more or less.

It is probably for the same reason I am sceptical about the video ram aspect of the card.

I don't doubt for a split second it will be fast just as not as fast as I would like (in relation to the min fps) this is the most important factor for me.

As for your other points I couldn't possibly comment on a 4870x2 as I have never owned one. But while I had a 4870 I never saw anything in relation to drivers that indicated it was any worse or better than the nVidia drivers at the time. Some things worked better on the 4870 and some on the 280 so it was pretty much swings and roundabouts.

But I have read your posts where you had issues with them while others said they have not had any so I just keep an open mind. On any given day drivers from nVidia can be just as bad as the ATI ones. When I had the ATI for the most part it was troublesome free. I realise this is down to peoples own persepctive and that there should be no problems from the offset but considering it was new technology at the time I factored in teething troubles.

Over clockers I found were very good when it came to me swapping out stuff I found. I bought a MSI 780 and the day it arrived at my house the 790i was released so I send them a webnote that I wish to return it under the Distance selling act and they were accomodating although YMMV.

But I will be looking forward to your impressions as well as others. I want the 295 to be a killer of the card better than the 4870x2. Not because it will make nVidia faster as it will encourage ATI to make a better card than that thus furthering graphics card advancement.

It seems more about releasing refreshes which are faster but only marginally rather than outright pound them into the ground.

I took a look at that 285 article and that was one of the silliest threads I have read. I think nVidia has lost an opportunity with these cards although I don't doubt for a split second they will still sell in decent quantities. It just doesn't at least from my point think "OMG, I need that card", it's more of a "Wouldn't mind one if they were cheap enough but I can wait" sort of deal.

Anyways let me know how you get on.

 

[joe pineapples]

Keep thinking i've clicked on the wrong thread - ie, another 295 v 4870x2 one

 

[Richdog]

LOL what a load of crockery, the inards of the x2 aren't exactly comparable to the inards or the nv top line card are they. Foolish to even think they are.

So the innard have to be the same to provide a valid comparison? Let us just summarize this in easy-to-rea dlanguage for those of the minority here that think they know better than professional reviewers, and seem to lack some basic common sense:

1) The ATI X2 4870 is ATI's fastest available enthusiast card in production, and is marketed as a single card despite it's dual core architecture.
2) The GTX 280 is NV's fastest available enthusiast card, they have nothing faster as yet.

ZOMG, reviewers are comparing the two fastest available cards from both manufacturers! That doesn't make sense... does it?

Jesus wept, what's wrong with some of you people, it's not rocket science. The only people I see having a problem with it are those with bias towards NV. ANyone else with half a brain and some objectivity knows it's as valid a comparison as any. The future will be multi-core GPU's acting as one card... ATI just got there first. It really is that simple.

 

[TaKeN]

This is extremely amusing, nvidia fanboys whining as the review is showing ATi X2 against Nvidias best card.

Somethings never change!