DTS vs DTS HD

thepharcyde · 3 Jan 2009 at 20:39

Okay recently got a Bluray player for my PC which feeds my LCD and optical out for sound to my Cambridge Audio 540R that does not support DTS HD.

Questions:

1) Is there a real noticeable difference between DTS and DTS HD say comparible to DVD vs Bluray visual difference?

2) I would need to change my ATI 3200 that does not carry the DTS HD signal to my amp, what gfx card/sound card is compatible with a 780G mobo?

3) What amp would fit my bill if I was to upgrade on say a minimum budget.

& 4) Is there a PCI card that decodes DTS HD and would pass this optically to my current non DTS HD amp?

Thank you

Lil old me · 3 Jan 2009 at 20:56

1) Although I have not tested this yet I have read that there is a noticeable difference.

2) Any of the Radeon HD series will carry hdmi audio but none except the Asus xonar 1.3 will do a bitstream HD signal (see below)

3) Imo you might not need to upgrade your amp... (see below)

4) You cant send an hd audio signal by coax or optical, there isnt enough bandwidth.

* As I have said there is only 1 way to get true HD audio via HDMI and that is using an asus xonar sound card. These cards are expensive £140~ and do have a number of issues. These are supposed to be resolved in a new card revision some time this month, or auzentech are releasing a competing card late jan/early feb though no one knows how reliable this will be given it isnt out yet!

An alternative, and my logic for all the see above comments ive made would be to keep your setup, get power DVD ultra (so it will decode the hd audio to more than 2 channels) and simply connect this using the normal 3.5mm jacks on your soundcard to the multichannel inputs on your amp. As the computer will be doing the decoding anyway there is no need for an amp which can decode an HD track.

The only problem with this method is that power dvd downsamples the HD track from 24 to 16 bit. Its debatable whether this will be noticeable but it would be a much cheaper method than buying a new amp ~£200 and a new soundcard which can do bitstream audio ~£140.

This method would also require 3 more sound cables coming from your pc, dont know if thats an issue for you.

Finally, and this is something ive pretty much concluded on despite me just purchasing an onkyo 606 and an lg combo drive. There is a sony blu ray player model 550 I think which retails for about £200. This can do HD decoding onboard and you could plug that into the multichannel inputs on your current amp. a lot less hastle imo and something I wish I'd done to save all the fiddling. But you might like the fiddling. So there is an htpc option. Phew!

Edit: This thread is extremely useful http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17931333

rubberduck · 3 Jan 2009 at 21:10

Please search for the thread 'trying to understand HD audio' and read through that a couple of times... it should clear things up. I will attempt to answer your questions.

1) Most say that there is quite a noticeable difference between DTS/DD and their high definition equivalents. However the size of this difference will depend on quality of amplification and speakers. I am sure many will tell you that DTS amplified by an old Arcam amp will sound much better than DTS HD audio via a sony str dg820. OTOH with the same amp HD audio should always sound better and I expect the difference to be very noticeable with a £500 or so amp.

2) Is your MB PCI-E? Surely most modern graphic and sound cards will be compatible? I think (but could be wrong) that current generation graphics cards of all budgets should be able to pass downsampled PCM to an amp via HDMI. If you want the amp to decode the audio then you will need Asus HDAV1.3 card wich can bit stream the audio to your amp.

3) The sony str dg820 is very cheap but cannot say how it sounds. I assume it accepts PCM.

4) Opically you are limited to 2 channel PCM as the connection does not have the bandwidth for anything more. Does your current amp have analogue connections? I think the HDAV 1.3 can decode and send over analogue (not sure if it works yet but should in the future). Maybe this would be the best way for you to enjoy HD audio, however you should probably wait untill the necessary sound cards are cheaper.

photoshop · 3 Jan 2009 at 22:25

Its not just about the amp either. Dont forget that everything is as good as the weakest link in the chain. Your cabling and your speakers will also have a bearing. Room acoustics and a whole bunch of other things come into play aswell but some may think that's OTT.

Its not just a simple case of having an amp that excepts DTS-HD.

thepharcyde · 3 Jan 2009 at 22:53

thx for the suggestions.

I consider myself to have a niceish system as my HTPC plays 1080p movies fine, amp nice and punchy feedsing my Mordaunt Short Genie speakers with middle of the RS range for cabling. Acoustics prob suck though as I have a small living room

photoshop · 3 Jan 2009 at 23:54

Unless you've heard DTS-HD audio on a real professional setup with all the right gear and instruments how would anyone know or tell the difference?

Does any one really know what it sounds like other than the engineers who mastered it in the studio....?

Answers on a postcard......

Lil old me · 4 Jan 2009 at 00:00

I think the proposed difference is between a normal DTS soundtrack from a DVD and the same film in DTS-HD on a blu ray. Whether it is identical to the original we will never know but if its better than a heavily compressed dvd version then im sold.

I gonna guess its not as great as the difference between MP3 and FLAC but somewhere near it.

Snow-Munki · 4 Jan 2009 at 01:33

Lil old me said:
An alternative, and my logic for all the see above comments ive made would be to keep your setup, get power DVD ultra (so it will decode the hd audio to more than 2 channels) and simply connect this using the normal 3.5mm jacks on your soundcard to the multichannel inputs on your amp. As the computer will be doing the decoding anyway there is no need for an amp which can decode an HD track.

Rather than start a new thread I just wanted to check / ask....

If I buy 3 * 3.5mm cable to phono and plug it from back of my PC to my amp I can get dolby HD sound where the PC does the encoding ?? Using WinDVD here though and not PowerDVD.

krisboats · 4 Jan 2009 at 02:06

It won't be dolby HD as thats the compression method for sending it down the cables. It will be HD audio though.

I think the most importantpart for question two about windvd is already in your quote, and explained as to why.

Lil old me · 4 Jan 2009 at 09:01

Im not familiar with windvd but as krisboats says you need to make sure your version of windvd will output multichannel hd audio. Also afaik it will downsample the sound from 24 to 16 bits.

If you get the cables it will be the next best thing though, yes.

wolvers · 4 Jan 2009 at 13:41

Lil old me said:
I gonna guess its not as great as the difference between MP3 and FLAC but somewhere near it.

That's an excellent way of looking at it and I would say that it is as great as the difference between MP3 and FLAC. It is after all a comparison of a lossy track and a lossless one.

Snow-Munki · 6 Jan 2009 at 20:27

Lil old me said:
Im not familiar with windvd but as krisboats says you need to make sure your version of windvd will output multichannel hd audio. Also afaik it will downsample the sound from 24 to 16 bits.

If you get the cables it will be the next best thing though, yes.

Just wanted to clarify as I have just change the spdif to 3 analogue cables...

According to Windvd website :

http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1189528458632#versionTabview=tab1&tabview=tab2

If link doesn't work it states :

WinDVD said:
96 kHz/24-bit Audio Decoding

Does that mean it won't change the audio from 24bit to 16bit like Powerdvd does ??

Ste · 6 Jan 2009 at 21:07

I heard the difference on a £5k system at a local hi-fi demo (Latest Marantz processor and 8 channel PA with Dali Ikon 8 fronts, 6 rears, sub and centre) and it was huge. But I really doubt it's all that much on these £200 Sony amps that now do it.

JudgeC · 7 Jan 2009 at 13:51

I have the following set-up -

Onkyo SR606 Amp (Recently purchased on a failed Xmas Shopping trip)
PS3 via HDMI (Blu-Ray)
XBox 360 via HDMI (HD-DVD)
Eltax Symphony 6 Fronts (Floorstanders), Eltax Symphony Centre & JPW Mini-Monitor Rears, No-Sub. (Considering an upgrade to a matched 5.1 speaker package)

Even on my modest system, it is a step up in quality, although it's not slap you round the face kind of obvious.
Standard DTS & DD sound great anyway, but there is a deeper, warmer, more dynamic sound from DTS MA/DD True HD (I am receiving these as PCM from the PS3).

At the end of the day, the difference to me is the size of my grin while watching a decent action movie on BR, it was there anyway, it's just a bit bigger now.