Insurance Companies.. 15%?

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 17:32

Hxc said:
Are you having to pay any extra for the S, West? Sorry if I missed this, but are they effectively swapping their car for yours?

Not a thing, but from Fox's super figures which EVERYONE must believe as Fox is the god of the Motors Forum and knows everything about everything... so surley i'm going into negative because it's a slightly older car. If Fox actually did his homework properly, he would see that cars identical to the S i'm having are retailing for that price, if not more, and that an R56 is listing less.

Regardless, i'm still getting a better car out of it which every man and his dog on this thread seems to of forgotten because they're so obsessed in proving me wrong and telling me what a HUUUUGE financial mistake i'm making because they are on their usual 'West is having a new car' bandwagon therefore I must been in a Zillion pounds worth of debt, which really isn't the case.

K.C. Leblanc · 7 Jan 2009 at 18:35

Can we have a poll to suggest what West should get after the S?

My vote, brand new Citroen C6 at list.

Housey · 7 Jan 2009 at 18:38

F40 or MG Metro Turbo, tough call.

Dureth · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:02

Mondeo TBH

[TW]Fox · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:04

West said:
If Fox actually did his homework properly,

Excuse me whilst I choke on the irony.

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:16

[TW]Fox;13236981 said:
Excuse me whilst I choke on the irony.

Indeed.

The way I see it is like this:

1) You know nothing about me, so please don't presume you can make judgement on me based on such a small ammount of information about me and my personal life.

2) There are plenty of Mini Cooper S' selling, yes I could have got one cheaper, but the deal I have really isn't that bad. A car of similar spec, as it shows on the website, for the spec and model are selling for the same if not more.

3) You seem to take a peverse enjoyment of joining in with my threads and turning them round into a complete flame fest.. this thread yet again has completley gone off topic because you feel the need to question every decsision I make. Personally I think it's sad.

4) And finally.. if the deal was soo bad, why would a person i've known a while go out of his way to screw me over? A valid reply to that would be 'because it's his job' but the way I see it, i'm giving them a tin can that's breaking constantly for a car that's going to go through countless checks before I have it, and they're gonna be over a barrel if this one goes balls up.

So if you still want to 'choke' go and do it somewhere else, because as usual you turned a perfectly legitimate thread i've made here into a convention for flamers.

Skeeter · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:18

Im not that clever, and im not going to pretend that I know all about Minis, but am I right in saying that effectively what West is doing is:

Giving the dealer a £9500 car that will be sold for profit, and taking a £7500 car in exchange?

paradigm · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:20

Skeeter said:
Im not that clever, and im not going to pretend that I know all about Minis, but am I right in saying that effectively what West is doing is:

Giving the dealer a £9500 car that will be sold for profit, and taking a £7500 car in exchange?

This is the thread summed up in a nut(ter) shell.

In the words of West's post in GD:

"You're doing it wrong."

[TW]Fox · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:20

West said:
1) You know nothing about me, so please don't presume you can make judgement on me based on such a small ammount of information about me and my personal life.

All we know about you is what you chose to tell us on the internet.

3) You seem to take a peverse enjoyment of joining in with my threads and turning them round into a complete flame fest.. this thread yet again has completley gone off topic because you feel the need to question every decsision I make. Personally I think it's sad.

Not at all. Firstly all the questions you asked in your OP were answered first. Secondly, most of us are genuinelly trying to help you, as we are every time we post in your threads. You really are oblivious to what the dealership is doing.

4) And finally.. if the deal was soo bad, why would a person i've known a while go out of his way to screw me over? A valid reply to that would be 'because it's his job' but the way I see it, i'm giving them a tin can that's breaking constantly for a car that's going to go through countless checks before I have it, and they're gonna be over a barrel if this one goes balls up.

Salesmen work on comission. He flogs you car, his dealer principle is happy, he gets comission. Your car will go after a short spell on the forecourt anyway and any problems with it will generate even more money for the dealer when the car comes back in for warranty work.

because as usual you turned a perfectly legitimate thread i've made here into a convention for flamers.

You do that yourself with the content of your threads! I mean come on, you posted to ask if it there was a law that said insurance companies cannot be more than 15% more expensive than the cheapest deal :confused:

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:21

Skeeter said:
Im not that clever, and im not going to pretend that I know all about Minis, but am I right in saying that effectively what West is doing is:

Giving the dealer a £9500 car that will be sold for profit, and taking a £7500 car in exchange?

No and no.

Fox seems to of got it into his head that a 56 Plate Mini Cooper with hardly any spec and 30k on the clock will sell for 10k. Because it won't it's simple as that.

The Car is worth £8,000, and that is what I would have got trade in. It would be put up for £9,500, maybe more

The Cooper S, with much higher spec is slightly older... and would sell for 10k easily.

So the deal is about on par. If not worth more for me because of the problems the car has.

paradigm · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:23

West said:
The Car is worth £8,000, and that is what I would have got trade in. It would be put up for £9,500, maybe more

Lol wut?

So, you say the car is "worth" £8,000. Then say it will sell for £9,500 or maybe more. Surely it is "worth" more than £8,000 then. Funnily, you then say...

West said:
The Cooper S, with much higher spec is slightly older... and would sell for 10k easily.

So, going off your sums above, they took it in for £7,500 ish then, yeah?

Pretty sure that is the figure Fox quoted earlier that you said was wrong...

Skeeter · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:27

West said:
No and no.

Fox seems to of got it into his head that a 56 Plate Mini Cooper with hardly any spec and 30k on the clock will sell for 10k. Because it won't it's simple as that.

The Car is worth £8,000, and that is what I would have got trade in. It would be put up for £9,500, maybe more

The Cooper S, with much higher spec is slightly older... and would sell for 10k easily.

So the deal is about on par. If not worth more for me because of the problems the car has.

The car is going to a dealer. Therefore it will sell for MORE than what they pay you for it. That is guaranteed. No car dealer ever survives by selling cars for less than they paid for it.

[TW]Fox · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:28

West said:
Fox seems to of got it into his head that a 56 Plate Mini Cooper with hardly any spec and 30k on the clock will sell for 10k. Because it won't it's simple as that.

You seem utterly convinced that, problems aside, your car is poorly specified and hugely undesireable and nobody would ever buy it unless it was really cheap.

Why then, did you buy it in the first place? :confused:

It's a Mini. Girls love them and don't really care that much about spec. Yours has the bare essentials, and will probably move off a forecourt for £10k as a Mini Cherished.

The Car is worth £8,000, and that is what I would have got trade in. It would be put up for £9,500, maybe more

I see, Mini Dealers are selling fully fledged AUC stock for trade book now are they? I appreciate car values are taking a beating but come on..

The Cooper S, with much higher spec is slightly older... and would sell for 10k easily.

The Cooper S is hardly utterly loaded, is it? No nav etc? So most of the spec is incidentals which are nice to have but dont make considerable differences to the price.

Look, here is an approved 2004 Cooper S with lower mileage for just over 8 grand?

http://www.minicherished.co.uk/mini...s/0,,___,00.html?ch=_V01XUkUzMjAzMFRDODgyMTU=

And another..

http://www.minicherished.co.uk/mini...s/0,,___,00.html?ch=_V01XUkUzMjA5MFRLNzQ0NzY=

And a better colour..

http://www.minicherished.co.uk/mini...s/0,,___,00.html?ch=_V01XUkUzMjBYMFRLNzU5Mjc=

etc etc.

Your transaction between them is simply a conventional customer trades his car in for a new car. Nothing more. Viewed at from that point of view there is probably nothing wrong with the deal, but it's certainly not the 'them helping you out' you seem so desperate to convince yourself that it is.

We are not flaming for flame sake. We are providing honest, decent advice. At the end of the day you are more than welcome to ignore it but don't question its motives. I've better things to do then sit here and look up figures simply to say ha ha ha to somebody I've never met.

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:31

But then you've got to add the difference in there that they are making up.

Because in any normal situation I would have had to make up money to be able to get a Facelift R53. They would infact taken that car in for somewhere in the region of £8.5-9k, which was the figure I was given.

They are getting a basic spec Cooper, which is worth in the region of £8000 trade in, and £9-10k list price.

The Cooper S, as previously stated will go anywhere in the same region, but probably a lot closer to 10k than the Cooper would.

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:35

Your forgetting the big thing though Fox.

2 out of those 3 cars are pre-facelift.

The one facelift you quoted, I have looked into this car, and many like it.

The simple reason they aren't available is because the dealers owe too much on them to sell them to the dealer at trade price. That Blue one was selling at £8,650 but you can guarentee that isn't what the dealer paid for it. It will owe them a fair bit more.

Edit: it also has a fair bit more mileage on it too.

Skeeter · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:36

Sorry West, but ill take Fox's researched firgures and superior grasp of common sence over your speculative figures.

Bottom line, you want a Cooper S. You should have just said you were trading in your Cooper for an S because you wanted one, and not tried to convince us you are getting a 'super deal' from the dealer.

Dealers are a business, they will make money out of you, fact.

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:45

Ok, all the **** aside let me put it like this then.

Yes, i'm trading it in. I want an S, I realised that it's possible.. initially I was just going to trade it in for another Cooper, but realised the S was feasable.

I'm getting what I want, a decent spec.. a little more mileage but as we've discussed, it's nothing.

The dealer are getting a car that will no doubt bring the next owner no end of visits, causing more problems for them whilst i'm happy in a much faster, better specced car.

That's all I care about. I'm not personally loosing anything. If the dealer is gaining a little.. Diddums? I'm having to pay a little more in insurance, the difference between the two, in my eyes and from what i've been told by my freind at the dealer is minimal.

It may not be the deal of the century.. but i'm making on the deal because i'm getting rid of the car that would have caused me no end of problems.

[TW]Fox · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:48

West said:
I'm not personally loosing anything

This is the problem. You can't see beyond the fact that swapping the keys over means, for you, you are losing nothing. You dont have to get your cash out so its nil cost.

Thats not how it works - you ARE losing something, you are losing the equity you have in your current car. The dealer retail value of your car is of no interest to your finance company. Only the bottom line value is.

Skeeter · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:49

You should have stopped that post after the first 3 lines.

West · 7 Jan 2009 at 20:53

[TW]Fox;13237319 said:
This is the problem. You can't see beyond the fact that swapping the keys over means, for you, you are losing nothing. You dont have to get your cash out so its nil cost.

Thats not how it works - you ARE losing something, you are losing the equity you have in your current car. The dealer retail value of your car is of no interest to your finance company. Only the bottom line value is.

You say finance company. I don't have one of those.. so the bottom line value is what matters to me.. the money isn't secured on anything.

So it's at nill cost to me... and what equity I had in the car is irrelevant because of the condition of the car... the time and money I spend going back and forth to the dealers (which I might add is 20 miles away) once the warrenty runs out it's gonna end up costing me more what I would save in that equity if I kept the car in up-keep and repairs.