Autistic teenager kicked baby in the face

I generally dislike those who do not contribute to the society. As long as they can be constructive with it, they are ok in my books. Everyone else should gtfo from this country. (Just to mention I was not born here(UK), but over the years spent living here, I despair at what this is becoming :() I pay taxes, don't steal things or punch random people in the street, why should my taxes be used to pay for TV's and gyms for criminals and other time wasters?
 
I generally dislike those who do not contribute to the society. As long as they can be constructive with it, they are ok in my books. Everyone else should gtfo from this country. (Just to mention I was not born here(UK), but over the years spent living here, I despair at what this is becoming :() I pay taxes, don't steal things or punch random people in the street, why should my taxes be used to pay for TV's and gyms for criminals and other time wasters?

:rolleyes: just :rolleyes:
 
I generally dislike those who do not contribute to the society. As long as they can be constructive with it, they are ok in my books. Everyone else should gtfo from this country. (Just to mention I was not born here(UK), but over the years spent living here, I despair at what this is becoming :() I pay taxes, don't steal things or punch random people in the street, why should my taxes be used to pay for TV's and gyms for criminals and other time wasters?

Thats the same as a lot of people, but has got bog all to do with an autistic person stamping on a baby. Unless you deem mentally ill people as people you dislike because they do not contribute?
 
Glad to see people actually care what is happening to a country where I presume you live :o.

We'll make sure to ship you out and abandon on random shore as soon as you get sick or reach retirement age. Down with freeloaders. ;)
 
I am sure even they can do something useful, for example have seen adverts years ago for light switches put together by blind people. Laugh as much as you want, but to me that is a good thing. We shouldn't dismiss someone just because they are disabled, we should simply dismiss time wasters.

Now ok, maybe that was the first time this guy snapped, fair enough but instead of "bowing down" to him just because he is a bit cranky, they should get him to do something constructive, I mean come on he's 18 already. That and at least try to get to understand what he has done, guessing by now it would be a tad late for him to realise what he is being punished for?

@ v0n, I don't consider those who worked their life freeloaders, they already done their bit (hopefully).
 
Glad to see people actually care what is happening to a country where I presume you live :o.
I presume by gtfo you mean "get the **** out"?
Where to?
I know that you think that this should apply to the mentally handicapped/ill, but do you want the disabled, unemployed to gtfo.
Yes I do live here but I fail to see that the incident in question is the end of civilisation as we know it.
You are talking tripe.
 
Now ok, maybe that was the first time this guy snapped, fair enough but instead of "bowing down" to him just because he is a bit cranky, they should get him to do something constructive, I mean come on he's 18 already. That and at least try to get to understand what he has done, guessing by now it would be a tad late for him to realise what he is being punished for?

He may totally understand what he's done and be mortified about it. What he can't do yet is stop himself doing it.

How many more times??

There are some people who will never be capable of learning, working or doing something you would consider constructive. Deal with it, it's a very small minority.
 
Where to?
Some other country that will take them, if any will.

I know that you think that this should apply to the mentally handicapped/ill, but do you want the disabled, unemployed to gtfo.
Read my post above yours, thanks for reading it.

Yes I do live here but I fail to see that the incident in question is the end of civilisation as we know it.
You are talking tripe.
Conversation came to it, somehow, not sure as to how though, maybe I have been a little fast in conclusions :confused:. Apologies for thread hijack there.

That is a well researched and persuasive definition of autism (emphasis mine BTW)
Did mention before in my previous posts that I knew nothing about it. The wiki page turned out to have a lot of information on there, but id read it later.
 
Some other country that will take them, if any will.
Forced deportation eh.


Read my post above yours, thanks for reading it.

Did not post fast enough.

Conversation came to it, somehow, not sure as to how though, maybe I have been a little fast in conclusions :confused:. Apologies for thread hijack there.

NP


Did mention before in my previous posts that I knew nothing about it. The wiki page turned out to have a lot of information on there, but id read it later.

Maybe read it before you post ;)
 
Just finished reading this thread and i am quite suprised with some of the responses.

First of all as a parent if anybody tried to attack/assualt (It doesn't matter if they are autistic, disabled or completely normal this is what it is) my child in any shape or form i beat them down and ask questions later, family always comes first.

A few years ago when my daughter was 1 my wife and father in law were shopping in Tesco, my daughter was playing with some toys with her grandfather when a 7 - 9 year old girl came over and started talking to her, nothing wrong with that but when she picked a toy this other girl wanted and held it then other girl grabbed her hair with both hands and pulled her to the floor (My daughter had only recently started walking) and would not let go until her grandfather manage to remove her hands from her head pulling hair out in the process. The girl then went of crying and a few minutes later her Mum and gran turned up shouting at my wife and and the in law, to which my mrs responded. The girl mum apprently did not apologise or have any remorse for my daughter and at some point in the arguement added "Its not her fault she is autistic" like it was an excuse for it not to go unpunished.

I do belive that there are people with mental issue and they should helped and cared for but allowing or giving them the oppitunity to possible do something like this is wrong and dangerous but not to punish them is also very wrong.
 
Just finished reading this thread and i am quite suprised with some of the responses.

First of all as a parent if anybody tried to attack/assualt (It doesn't matter if they are autistic, disabled or completely normal this is what it is) my child in any shape or form i beat them down and ask questions later, family always comes first.

A few years ago when my daughter was 1 my wife and father in law were shopping in Tesco, my daughter was playing with some toys with her grandfather when a 7 - 9 year old girl came over and started talking to her, nothing wrong with that but when she picked a toy this other girl wanted and held it then other girl grabbed her hair with both hands and pulled her to the floor (My daughter had only recently started walking) and would not let go until her grandfather manage to remove her hands from her head pulling hair out in the process. The girl then went of crying and a few minutes later her Mum and gran turned up shouting at my wife and and the in law, to which my mrs responded. The girl mum apprently did not apologise or have any remorse for my daughter and at some point in the arguement added "Its not her fault she is autistic" like it was an excuse for it not to go unpunished.

I do belive that there are people with mental issue and they should helped and cared for but allowing or giving them the oppitunity to possible do something like this is wrong and dangerous but not to punish them is also very wrong.
There are levels of autism, a low function autistic would have no idea why he was being punished, or what he'd done wrong, absolutely none whatsoever, even a high function one would maybe not have much of a clue, fighting over a toy sounds like a high function disorder maybe even a mild case of Aspergers in which case discipline would have been appropriate, on the other hand kids are forever squabbling, go into most playgroups and you soon realise the staff aren't carers but are mediators.
Beating a low function autistic "down" is absolutely no different to beating a toddler down, only the scale is different, it's pretty much as easy too, they don't have much idea how to actually fight, a lot of them don't even flinch, let alone duck (ones that have been hit tend to flinch almost constantly), maybe you could puff your chest afterwards at how you had avenged the hurt on your own child so effectively, but personally I couldn't live with myself.
I personally try not to "beat down" the mentally disabled, though I would if my family was in immediate danger if I didn't, even then I would first attempt restraint techniques.
 
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Beating a low function autistic "down" is absolutely no different to beating a toddler down, only the scale is different, it's pretty much as easy too, they don't have much idea how to actually fight, a lot of them don't even flinch, let alone duck (ones that have been hit tend to flinch almost constantly), maybe you could puff your chest afterwards at how you had avenged the hurt on your own child so effectively, but personally I couldn't live with myself.

I think you are missing the posters point, which is the same point I was making when I said exactly the same thing.

If someone attacks my 7 month old baby I am going to attack them hard and fast and put them down. This is not about being Alpha, this is not about revenge, this is not about being a bad parent "because you should have looked after your baby first..." - this is about removing a potential threat from the area your baby is in. It's about defending and protecting your helpless little baby who can't do so for themselves.

When I'm sure the threat no longer exists then I can tend to my baby, but there is sod all point doing that if the attacker is just going to come back and hit the baby again. Which lets face it is entirely possible bearing in mind it is suggested in the original article that it was the baby crying that set him off in the first place - and I can guarantee any baby taking a hoof to the face is going to cry long and loud!
 
Cripes, this threat has taken a funny old turn since I last posted.

There are a lot of views here that are based on personal experience and opinion. (Sorry I am generalising here because a number of posters DO have a clue about autism. Have an understanding of its symptoms and the effect this has on their immediate families and those around them).

However, while I appreciate there is some reason to be outraged (based on the limited information provided in the OP link) there is equally reason to stand back and consider the implications of what some people are posting.

The over-reactors who say 'lock him up', 'deport', punish or whatever are really out of touch with reality. An individual with profound or severe autism would not understand the concept of punishment.

The moral implications of this are staggering. Remember what happened in natzi Germany - the experiments etc? If you agree with those sentiments you are morally no better. Someone said, the judge of a society is how they treat the weakest. People with autism, despite the potential (or actual) harm they cause do not understand what they have done (in general terms).

Autism as a disability hinges on the idea that those with autism are socially blind. They are unaware of the intentions of other people and social conventions. That's not very exact - if you want more detail check out Simon Baron-Cohen. His book "Mindblindness: An Essays on Autism" defines possible reasons why an individual with autism does not understand the social world around him. Essentially it is postulated that someone with autism has a malfunctioning theory of mind. They don't understand your view of the world is different to their own. this might not be a major problem to high-functioning autistics, while the more profoundly autistic don't understand you think differently to them or even you have thoughts of your own. There is a well established model that describes how someone with autism experiences the world.
Other theories that try to describe the phenomena of autism include the "triad of impairments" and '"extreme male brain" theory. Check em out if you can be bothered.

For those who are interested in why someone with autism might behave in peculiar ways: as humans we crave social interaction. It gives us a kick, sociologists call it stroking. When you and I exchange pleasantries we 'stroke' each other verbally. we say "I'm here and I recognise you" to be very inexact. For those with autism the signals just don't get through. Instead they find other ways to make themselves feel 'good'.

When you are profoundly autistic communication is a big area of difficulty. For many of the reasons I've suggested above. Communication difficulties are the root of most challenging behaviour an autistic person exhibits. For the young adult in the OP article, he obviously felt very strongly about the noise (or something) the infant was doing bothered him. He was doing what he could to make that stop.

I would like you all to think about something that has irritated you recently, physically or mentally. Doesn't matter what. Consider how you dealt with it?

In the first instance you would probably try to resolve whatever issue it was was bothering you. Loud neighbours? Go round there and ask them to turn it down. Headphones perhaps? Or perhaps it was that person who cut you up in the queue of traffic. What did you do about that? Or something we all can appreciate, a toothache or headache.

Think about something that you can't do something about. And it doesn't stop and as far as you are concerned, FOREVER as you have no concept of time and cannot predict the future. Then what would you do.

In the original OP the baby probably was crying, but it might not have been - you sometimes can never know with autistic people. ( I think people with autism view the rest of us as moving objects, that make funny noises and make no sense. ) Anyway, if you have communication difficulties you can't say stop that it's annoying me, or that exact noise is going to make my head explode. Imagine what it's like when you are helpless. Then you might react in a way that might be similar.

In fact, it's worse than I've described for a person with autism, life is a maelstrom of things happening. Objects and people leap out of nowhere at you. None of it makes sense.

As I've given you a crash course on the world from an autistic point of view (more reading would be Roz Blackburn or Temple Grandin). Try having some sympathy.

It was wrong fro an autistic person to hurt someone else - a two year old, or whoever. But I bet he didn't understand. He was trying to stop something that was driving him crazy.

In my experience when something like this happens, steps are taken to ensure it does not happen again. this brings me back to those who think locking up is the solution.

Firstly it would not solve anything. It would not cure the person with autism. it would overload an already overstretched prison and mental health service further.

If you think it is justified because that person is a danger to society, well you are wrong. (It is a different matter if you are a murderer for example and convicted as such) but the autistic person really doesn't understand. So someone is a danger to society. So is everyone when they get behind the wheel of a car. Had a prang ever? Doubly, triply so.

I think that's enough. I've had a long experience of teaching students with autism, usually the most profound and severe cases. There is a wealth of information and study on autism and its causes - more than one person can skim over in a post such as this. The one thing I always try to remind myself about is, most people don't understand or have any experience of autism. It's a fascinating and rewarding area to work in.
 
Politley snipped.

The one thing I always try to remind myself about is, most people don't understand or have any experience of autism. It's a fascinating and rewarding area to work in.

Just wow! Thank you for posting that. Kinda kills the bickering in this thread stone dead.

Having read some of the more informed posts in this thread one thing it has done is make me read up a little on autism, I've spent a decent chunk of this eveing trying to find articles about autism to read, and I will probably continue to try to find more.

My only expirience of an autistic person is walking to my car from work the other week and I bumping into the girl who lives opposite from us. I said hello and noticed this young woman with her with a funny/vacant look on her face, I asked if she was working and she said she was talking this girl home after a shopping trip and that she works with autistic children, then asked this young woman to say hello, and was ignored. After been asked again the young lady looked at me and gave a really beaming smile for about two secods then went straight back to ignoring me and adopted the same blank look she had before.

After leaving them it got me thinking about how facinating her job must be. I've got a good job, I'm a voice network specialist for a decent sized local authority but I couldn't help thinking how much more rewarding a job like that must be.
 
As a parent of an autistic child / young adult I think this has been a great thread, it's been illuminating to hear from those unencumbered by the need to be polite what their views are, a lot of them have resorted to assault as a "defence" solution, when just moving the baby away would be adequate which is a bit sad, but not unexpected, many have called for punishment or incarceration, which may or may not be needed, it's after all very, very, rare for this sort of incident and must be taken on it's own merits, which I'm sure it will have been.
I hope that some of those who immediately said, " I'd **** him up if it was my kid" have had cause to think a bit about how fair that would actually be. What would they do if another child in nursery broke their child's nose, it happens, a lot more often than autistic attacks do, would they get stuck right into the other toddler? Of course not.
 
Yes but did the autistic man know that what he was doing was wrong? I think its a fairly good comparison, despite the differences in strength and potential injury.
 
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