Oxbridge query/advice

If you do get in, you are going to have to work very, very hard, much of the time. It is NOT going to be fun and you may well end up wishing you had gone elsewhere where you could have met girls, got drunk and partied most nights of the week.
Rubbish. Wherever you go, your uni experience is what you make of it. Oxbridge has more people who obsess over work, but that's their choice and NOT AT ALL representative of the whole. I for one have had a great time.

Go to Cambridge, Oxford is for tossers :p.
Filthy tabs :p
 
Interesting - this may be true now, but when I was there my CompSci friends were always going on about writing device drivers for something and learning the inner workings of compilers. I may have misread what they were saying and / or the course has changed now though.

Well, I just looked at what both universities offer as part of their computer science degrees, Oxford did not even mentioned what languages you will be "learning" while Cambridge mentioned Java and ML. Think they each had a module about hardware, but none mentioned actual programming of such.

The rest of the modules just sounded like theory upon theory upon theory. I may be entirely wrong as they didn't list what exactly you would be doing on say "Compilers and programming languages" or "Computer architecture", but I am willing to bet that given that there is also a module called "Formal program design" only a small amount of of actual programming involved.

And given that they didn't mention learning any languages I would associate with hardware related either writing drivers, or even basic introduction to operating systems, nor any modules sounded like they would cover that.

Cambridge even boasts about its past:
We can be confident about this because Cambridge has been a major player in computer development since 1937, when a mechanical differential analyser was built here, followed in 1949 by the world’s first practical stored program electronic computer. The world’s first computer science course opened here in 1953. Today Cambridge continues as a centre of excellence in teaching and research.

Yes excellent, well done. But what on earth are you doing in THIS century? Surely if they kept doing something good, they would list that?

The Computer Laboratory has two dedicated teaching rooms containing a total of 100 Intel workstations donated by Intel running Linux and Windows/XP on a Novell network. The mix of machines changes annually as we continually update our equipment.
Yep, that sounds like a very large computing department.

As a comparison, UWE, not the "elite" university, think its an old poly or something like that:
There are over 500 IT workstations available in our teaching laboratories
This is just for students doing computing courses, not the rest of university, who have their own network. Granted size of computing department isn't everything at all, but its still an indicator that most will probably be classroom based and not that much programming.

More from Cambridge:
Our graduates emerge with an understanding of principles that will outlast today’s technology, making them sought after by industry and commerce. About half go on to work in the computer industry, while a fifth take higher degrees and develop careers in teaching and research. Others easily find employment in such fields as merchant banking, programming and commerce.

So what's the difference between computer industry and programming and commerce? Ok, now I am just nit picking, and probably gone a fair bit OT. Sorry about that, but those courses just don't strike me as anything to do with hardware, device drivers, or even writing usable applications for windows, let alone other OS.

But like I said before, depends what OP wants to go into, which is the main thing.
 
For either Oxford or Cambridge, I don't wouldn't study the websites to get the impression of the course. It's extremely unlikely that it's even been written by someone in the department. E-mail an insider or a course organiser with specific questions.
 

You seem quite bitter about the whole thing really...

The compscis that I know (in Cambridge) are all fluent in various programming languages, and all enjoy the course a lot. It's not a vocational programming course, it's not a business course with another name, and it's definitely not irrelevant. It's computer SCIENCE course, and extremely theoretical. In fact it's probably the hardest you can choose to do. I'm willing to bet that the people who graduate from it are far more employable than from a computer "science" course that's 90% programming based.

rsatd said:
those courses will not give you many skills which are useful outside university.

I 100% disagree.
 

As I think others have said, if you're comparing the size of the computer labs to gauge how good the course is, then you seem to be missing the point of computer science.

It's not a vocational course. It's not "How to program in Java". Universities don't exist to teach people how to do jobs in industry, they exist to provide people with a good basis in a particular subject, from which some may hopefully end up doing useful research in.

And the cambridge teaching method is not to stick everyone in a classroom and make them do what the teacher does. You'll get lectures where a smart guy will tell you things, there'll be supervisions of 2-3 people where you get set work and get to ask about stuff you don't understand, and there'll be practicals where you'll have to do longer-term bits of work.
 
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As I think others have said, if you're comparing the size of the computer labs to gauge how good the course is, then you seem to be missing the point of computer science.

It's not a vocational course. It's not "How to program in Java". Universities don't exist to teach people how to do jobs in industry, they exist to provide people with a good basis in a particular subject, from which some may hopefully end up doing useful research in.

And the cambridge teaching method is not to stick everyone in a classroom and make them do what the teacher does. You'll get lectures where a smart guy will tell you things, there'll be supervisions of 2-3 people where you get set work and get to ask about stuff you don't understand, and there'll be practicals where you'll have to do longer-term bits of work.

I'm not sure i agree 100%, though I think it is primarily due to semantics.

Universities such as Oxford/Cambridge and the other ancients and to a certain extent, the red-bricks and "plate glass" universities, don't primarily exist to teach people practical skills, rather nurturing academic process and free thought by teaching research skills and offering challenging theory based courses.

However there is no getting around the fact that ex-polys have officially been universities for well over 2 decades now, ex-polys still tailor their courses to producing industry orientated students, who have good practical skills based in solid theory of CS. They are not aiming to uncover the next Einstein, but they do still produce good programmers with a more theoretical knowledge base than a traditional engineer or programmer may possess. In the case of selecting an ex-poly, the facilities of the institution can and should be a deciding factor as to whether you should go there.

For Oxford / Cambridge etc. however, it wouldnt matter if all they had was a lab full of 486s, it wouldn't change the fact that you are being taught by some of the finest academic minds in the subject area.... might make it difficult for them to demonstrate what they are teaching however ;)
 
I'm not sure i agree 100%, though I think it is primarily due to semantics.

Universities such as Oxford/Cambridge and the other ancients and to a certain extent, the red-bricks and "plate glass" universities, don't primarily exist to teach people practical skills, rather nurturing academic process and free thought by teaching research skills and offering challenging theory based courses.

However there is no getting around the fact that ex-polys have officially been universities for well over 2 decades now, ex-polys still tailor their courses to producing industry orientated students, who have good practical skills based in solid theory of CS. They are not aiming to uncover the next Einstein, but they do still produce good programmers with a more theoretical knowledge base than a traditional engineer or programmer may possess. In the case of selecting an ex-poly, the facilities of the institution can and should be a deciding factor as to whether you should go there.

For Oxford / Cambridge etc. however, it wouldnt matter if all they had was a lab full of 486s, it wouldn't change the fact that you are being taught by some of the finest academic minds in the subject area.... might make it difficult for them to demonstrate what they are teaching however ;)

You're right in that there are courses out there which are vocational. In my purist utopia though, Universities are academic institutions, not vocational ones, and it bugs me slightly that ex-polys do vocational courses and call themselves a university. I'm not saying that academic courses are superior, but they've got a different purpose and teach different things. Now, with everything being called a university, an employer has no idea whether a person with a compsci 'degree' is well versed in the academic theoretical side or the more practical getting things done side.

/rant.
 
You're right in that there are courses out there which are vocational. In my purist utopia though, Universities are academic institutions, not vocational ones, and it bugs me slightly that ex-polys do vocational courses and call themselves a university. I'm not saying that academic courses are superior, but they've got a different purpose and teach different things. Now, with everything being called a university, an employer has no idea whether a person with a compsci 'degree' is well versed in the academic theoretical side or the more practical getting things done side.

/rant.

I agree :) I have experienced both an ex-poly course and a red brick run course and the difference is very marked.

One != the other! i suppose though that's were university reputation comes into play, a good employer will find out what type of student a specific university is likely to produce and in the case of ex-polys they tend to flex their financial might and offer incentives to the university to produce a very specific type of student.

Of course, now polys have been granted university status, it cannot easily be taken away, so I would imagine that the system will begin to even itself out, as the good ex polys gain reputation and therefore research funding might, their courses will begin to alter, falling more inline with the traditional CS model as taught by the ancients and red bricks etc.

I would imagine the red brick institutions went through a similar process when they were introduced in the 1800s.
 
You seem quite bitter about the whole thing really...
Not bitter at all, sorry it comes over as that I guess. I write code for a job, to me all this theory is worthless, simple as that. All I was commenting on was that this particular course may not offer practical programming experience to help you get a programming job.

We still haven't heard from OP whether this is what he wants to go into.

The compscis that I know (in Cambridge) are all fluent in various programming languages, and all enjoy the course a lot. It's not a vocational programming course, it's not a business course with another name, and it's definitely not irrelevant.
If that is the case then great, I was only going by the module names/course description, which admittedly is not much.

It's computer SCIENCE course, and extremely theoretical. In fact it's probably the hardest you can choose to do. I'm willing to bet that the people who graduate from it are far more employable than from a computer "science" course that's 90% programming based.
Um, depends what job and what you define as you are going for, programming job, no. Employers want to see evidence that you can do something with the keyboard other then press "wasd" or churn out word documents.

As I think others have said, if you're comparing the size of the computer labs to gauge how good the course is
Never said that, just pointed out that its a possible indicator oh how much time you spend doing actual programming, which is relevant to my first point.
 
What on earth is patronising about that genuine question? The people interviewing you aren't likely to know much about the different syllabi, and are merely making sure the questions they ask are are fair.

I'm sorry, but asking a student taking a high-level maths course if they study basic differentiation is ridiculous. To be fair this was Exeter College; Magdalen actually appreciated that, as a student doing an A-level equivalent (arguably better), that I studied calculus as part of a higher level maths course.

I could understand something more specific like probabiliy & statistics, set theory and the like - asking if my higher level maths course included calculus was just bizarre. I wasn't sure if they were joking or not! (the interviewer asked me in a classic sneering tone) I hope the attitude has changed now - like I said, my friends who applied to Cambridge did not appear to have this problem at all.
 
I'm sorry, but asking a student taking a high-level maths course if they study basic differentiation is ridiculous.
No, it's not. You're not taking a high-level maths course, and whatever the material is in that course, they're not to know which parts of it you've covered. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if they asked you a question on Ricci flow, having assumed you'd studied differential geometry.

You're basically looking for reasons to dislike the interviewers/the college/the university. It's clearly an issue for you, otherwise you wouldn't lie about not getting an offer.
 
The course is vital, the name of the place secondary so long as the course has a good rep :)
The name of the academic institute is highly valuable, many companies wont even blink an eye lid if you are not from a top 10 (or 5) uni.
Whilst you probably will not be guaranteed a job as a research chemist with a degree in Land Economics, anyone who thinks that a degree from Oxbridge is no more highly regarded than a degree from Milton Keynes (yeah, yeah, I know . . .) is living in cloud cuckoo land.


Rubbish. Wherever you go, your uni experience is what you make of it. Oxbridge has more people who obsess over work, but that's their choice and NOT AT ALL representative of the whole. I for one have had a great time.
I am sure (and absolutely delighted) that you have ;)


Take up rowing.
Absolutely!
Be really good at it.
It will help if you are over 190cms and have spent at least half an hour a day on Ergs for the past five years. A 2k split time of < 7 mins would be good too :p
 
Whilst you probably will not be guaranteed a job as a research chemist with a degree in Land Economics, anyone who thinks that a degree from Oxbridge is no more highly regarded than a degree from Milton Keynes (yeah, yeah, I know . . .) is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Oh, I forgot - yes, pick a reputable university, not Bangor institute of Higher Educashun :D

Plymouth of course is a former poly. I'd not considered it much until a few months before my application. Turned out I liked its course best which is what mattered. If I was doing straight comp. sci. then I probably wouldn't have gone to Plymouth, for example.
 
As said, do lots of activities out of college. My mate got all A*s at GCSE, and 5 As at A-Level, yet didn't get accepted into Cambridge due to not doing one single thing out of school. It isn't all about grades.
 
No, it's not. You're not taking a high-level maths course, and whatever the material is in that course, they're not to know which parts of it you've covered. I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if they asked you a question on Ricci flow, having assumed you'd studied differential geometry.

You're basically looking for reasons to dislike the interviewers/the college/the university. It's clearly an issue for you, otherwise you wouldn't lie about not getting an offer.

Protip: IB subjects come in 2 flavours, Higher Level and Standard Level. By "higher level maths" I mean that I am taking IB mathematics, at Higher Level.

Magdalen were pretty decent about it, but meeting all the other applicants left me a little disillusioned - apart from myself and one guy from Leeds (we formed a "northern coalition") everyone else I met was a bit posh and I'm not sure I would've been happy living like that for 4 years. Don't know what you mean about lying either - believe it or not people do turn down Oxbridge! My decision was based on my experience, and the course content itself. (when I applied you didn't really "specialise" in any Engineering subject, you just studied general engineering / maths / physics with modules in Mech Eng, Chem Eng etc) My housemate turned down doing Philosophy at Cambridge to do it here in Sheffield - other universities are actually good at the subjects they teach too . . .
 
Go to Oxbridge if you can, if you want to work for the best companies and get paid the most money, it helps. It may not be fair but that's the way it is.
 
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