The most ridiculous claim about a car...

Angilion said:
That isn't an answer either, due to the complexity of the battery systems. They take far too long to exchange and require skilled people to do it.

I'm undecided as to which is the least impractical source of electricity for cars on a large scale - battery or hydrogen fuel cell. Both have huge issues with practicality on a large scale, but which is worse?
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The last time I changed the batteries in my TV remote, I didn't need a expert to do it for me.

I don't need an expert te help me change the battery in any of my RC cars either...
 
Angilion said:
It isn't, but they're not conceptually all that different.

A battery uses a chemical reaction to generate electricity.
A fuel cell uses a chemical reaction to generate electricty.

Calling a fuel cell a refillable battery wouldn't be unreasonable.
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You mean they're not technically different.

Conceptually they are very different; recharge vs. replace contents?
 
rypt said:
That technology is already there, it's called a hydrogen fuel cell.
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Which has massive problems of its own. It is not the magic answer that it is often portrayed as being. It does not simply remove all the drawbacks of batteries and make EVs flawless. Extracting, distributing and storing hydrogen on a massive scale at an affordable cost (in terms of resources) are huge problems.
 
BigglesPiP said:
The last time I changed the batteries in my TV remote, I didn't need a expert to do it for me.

I don't need an expert te help me change the battery in any of my RC cars either...
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You're joking, right? Or are you implying a massive advance in battery technology that will, as a side-effect, make replacing 50KWh+ battery systems simple?
 
Angilion said:
You're joking, right? Or are you implying a massive advance in battery technology that will, as a side-effect, make replacing 50KWh+ battery systems simple?
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I like your use of the term "battery system".

A battery is a bank of two or more electrical cells, so the word "system" is tautologous here. The biggest problem with replacing a dead one with a pre-charged one in a vehicle designed to have it replaced would be one of weight. Once we overcome the weight issue the process will be no longer than filling a car with your chosen fuel.
 
Angilion said:
That would increase the risk to pedestrians in this country, so it might not be legal.

People cross roads here wherever they judge it safe - we don't have the legal or social background of forbidding that. People also use noise as an indicator of approaching cars. With those two things, extremely quiet cars are dangerous.
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Noise has never been a legal requirement, plenty of luxury cars make next to no noise when cruising at low RPM (like the old Lexuses).
You are taught to "LOOK" for vehicles, not listen to one.

Angilion said:
Which has massive problems of its own. It is not the magic answer that it is often portrayed as being. It does not simply remove all the drawbacks of batteries and make EVs flawless. Extracting, distributing and storing hydrogen on a massive scale at an affordable cost (in terms of resources) are huge problems.
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Hydrogen distribution is no harder than current natural gas and petrol distribution, infact it might be easier.

The "correct" medium-long term method for producting Hydrogen has got to be from Water + Electricity - which will be generated by wave/hydro/geo-thermal/solar/wind and MOST IMPORTANTLY - NUCLEAR!
If you have a green national electricity supply, you can either generate the hydrogen and ship it in pipes / trucks. Or you do the clever thing and have fuel stations generate it themselves via an electric and water feed. Honda are even developing a prototype H2 generator for use in ones own house.
 
Angilion said:
Which has massive problems of its own. It is not the magic answer that it is often portrayed as being. It does not simply remove all the drawbacks of batteries and make EVs flawless. Extracting, distributing and storing hydrogen on a massive scale at an affordable cost (in terms of resources) are huge problems.
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Isn't there a Honda hydrogen fuel cell car in California being trailed at the minute, that you just bung water into at the pump?

Edit: Nope. I'm wrong. Was thinking of the FCX Clarity, but it has a huge hydrogen storage thing in the boot.
 
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Dogbreath said:
But a parsec is a unit of distance :D Err...sorry, coat on, leaving...
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I've had this discussion a few times with a mate of mine, we reckon that the kessel run is over a particular part of space which is extremely hazardous, the area is such that it requires several lightspeed jump, which opens the possibility of there being several routes through the "kessel" part of space. It's our theory that the falcon was able to navigate and jump such a route that took only 12 parsec's (taking 12 parsec's to be a short distance of remarkable quality).


N.B I have no idea if any further starwars literature qualifies the kessel run in more detail thus explaining the situation.


About the car, who knows! I certainly don't believe they can recharge a battery in 10mins to provide the power their talking about, but i'll believe it when they give it to a 3rd party and let them try it.
 
rypt said:
Noise has never been a legal requirement, plenty of luxury cars make next to no noise when cruising at low RPM (like the old Lexuses).
You are taught to "LOOK" for vehicles, not listen to one.
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And after the first couple of dozen children are killed, there will be calls for changes in the law. People do listen for cars and there's a big difference between some luxury cars being very quiet and the majority of cars being very quiet.

Hydrogen distribution is no harder than current natural gas and petrol distribution, infact it might be easier.
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How?

The "correct" medium-long term method for producting Hydrogen has got to be from Water + Electricity - which will be generated by wave/hydro/geo-thermal/solar/wind and MOST IMPORTANTLY - NUCLEAR!
If you have a green national electricity supply, you can either generate the hydrogen and ship it in pipes / trucks. Or you do the clever thing and have fuel stations generate it themselves via an electric and water feed. Honda are even developing a prototype H2 generator for use in ones own house.
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Hydrogen as an extremely inefficient energy carrier doesn't inspire me. Although it wouldn't be so bad if splitting water could be done at home, it's still far less efficient in energy terms than using batteries. Generating capacity would have to be increased a great deal.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it isn't the magic answer it's so often portrayed as being, with all the advantages of ICE, all the advantages of batteries and none of the disadvantages of either. I'm also saying that I'm not convinced that it's a better solution than batteries, which are far more energy-efficient.
 
BigglesPiP said:
I like your use of the term "battery system".

A battery is a bank of two or more electrical cells, so the word "system" is tautologous here. The biggest problem with replacing a dead one with a pre-charged one in a vehicle designed to have it replaced would be one of weight. Once we overcome the weight issue the process will be no longer than filling a car with your chosen fuel.
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Take a look at how long it takes to swap one in a Tesla roadster. Is that just because of the weight?

Most people consider the word "battery" to be a single self-contained unit, like the ones you can buy in many shops. Like, in fact, every battery they've ever seen. Like this one:

battery.jpg


While it might be correct to call a thousand connected batteries a battery, I'm not convinced that it's the best way to convey the intended meaning.
 
The star the paper that is funded by Asda adverts and showcases Lucy Pinder wit' clothes on.

The Sun + Saturdays is a decent read for 50p
 
geuben said:
I've had this discussion a few times with a mate of mine, we reckon that the kessel run is over a particular part of space which is extremely hazardous, the area is such that it requires several lightspeed jump, which opens the possibility of there being several routes through the "kessel" part of space. It's our theory that the falcon was able to navigate and jump such a route that took only 12 parsec's (taking 12 parsec's to be a short distance of remarkable quality).

N.B I have no idea if any further starwars literature qualifies the kessel run in more detail thus explaining the situation.
[..]
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The situation is that no-one with any say in making the film knew that a parsec was a measure of distance rather than time. It was a mistake stemming from ignorance, simple as that. It was intended to be Han Solo stating that his ship did the Kessel run in a remarkably short time.

Numerous people have made up retcons, as you have done, but they are retcons.
 
Angilion said:
Take a look at how long it takes to swap one in a Tesla roadster. Is that just because of the weight?

Most people consider the word "battery" to be a single self-contained unit, like the ones you can buy in many shops. Like, in fact, every battery they've ever seen. Like this one:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/Tahnval/battery.jpg

While it might be correct to call a thousand connected batteries a battery, I'm not convinced that it's the best way to convey the intended meaning.
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A tesla is packed full of small cells roughly the shape of the one in that image. It's not designed to have them replaced every 200 miles.

If you package them all into one big box with a beefy electrical connector that can be slid out the back of the car, then you could swap them all in seconds.
 
BigglesPiP said:
A tesla is packed full of small cells roughly the shape of the one in that image. It's not designed to have them replaced every 200 miles.

If you package them all into one big box with a beefy electrical connector that can be slid out the back of the car, then you could swap them all in seconds.
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OK, I see your point and you've convinced me. Given the right design, it could be simple to swap discharged for charged. That would make battery-powered EV cars far more practical, as it would separate charging time from the car itself. It would be possible to easily add battery swapping (and charging) facilities to existing petrol stations, expanding the battery side of things as required over time. Discharged battery boxes could be recharged in several hours at the station, ready to be slid into another car. Working out pricing shouldn't be too hard and standards could be established to ensure battery boxes could be swapped between cars. It would hamper innovation though, as every car would be constrained by the standard size.

But yes, you're right. It is weight that's the key issue.

Battery weight is currently around 500Kg for enough KWh to be more than a small urban runabout. That's far too heavy. Batteries aren't a radically new technology - is there any sign of battery weight being reduced far enough to make the above practical?
 
Angilion said:
Hydrogen as an extremely inefficient energy carrier doesn't inspire me. Although it wouldn't be so bad if splitting water could be done at home, it's still far less efficient in energy terms than using batteries. Generating capacity would have to be increased a great deal.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it isn't the magic answer it's so often portrayed as being, with all the advantages of ICE, all the advantages of batteries and none of the disadvantages of either. I'm also saying that I'm not convinced that it's a better solution than batteries, which are far more energy-efficient.
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Hydrogen is more efficient as batteries once it's generated, because the hydrogen cells do not degrade like a battery would.
However, you are right in saying that producing H2 is not efficient. You need more energy input to split H20 than you get from using H2 to make electricity. But then again, mining all the materials needed for a battery is not easy either.
The point is, if the electricity is made via renewable means or via nuclear - it does not matter that making H2 is inefficient because you always have access to cheap and easy electricty and lots of it.

Angilion said:
The situation is that no-one with any say in making the film knew that a parsec was a measure of distance rather than time. It was a mistake stemming from ignorance, simple as that.
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Indeed
The parsec ("parallax of one arcsecond", symbol pc) is a unit of length, equal to just under 31 trillion kilometres (about 19 trillion miles), or about 3.26 light-years. The parsec is used in astronomy.
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