Legacy, Forrester, Impreza thoughts?

[[FnG]magnolia]

Hi all,

We're moving to New Zealand in July of this year and about 70% of the cars are JDM imports. I want to get something which is fun but also practical on an 01 - 03 plate. Must have 4 doors or she'll divorce me The car'll be used for SWP with an estimated 12 - 15,000 miles a year.

I've always liked the idea of having an Impreza but don't really know much about the practicalities of living with one day to day. There's a huge amount of them available so prices are very attractive, as they are for the Legacy and Forrester (which I also don't know much about).

Does anyone know much about these models, particularly in Station Wagon form? Common things to look out for? Have used models always been thrashed?

Any help appreciated

 

[esK`]

I think the Legacy has the same boxer engine just de-tuned a little but still good fun, dont know to much about the Forrester though.

 

[djbenjo]

Most Japanese cars have a bad image in Australia and NZ, especially if modified. A friend of mine who moved over there last year bought a Sil80 and was getting pulled over consistantly every week. He since sold it a bought a Ute, simply because he was sick to death of being pulled over and given grief. He said since he bought his Ute, the only comments from the police he's had have been compliments. Very odd I thought.

 

[Lum]

Edit: ^^^ In a Sil80 that's hardly surprising, if you own one of those it probably means you're going out drifting or street racing. I'm not sure you'll get the same hassle in a Forester or Legacy, but if you got an Impreza it might be an issue, yes.

The Impreza and Forester are pretty much the same car, just styled a little differently. The Legacy is pretty similar but a bit longer and with better rear suspension (which has since found it's way onto the current model Impreza). In estate form it has more capacity than both the Impreza and the Forester.

If you're looking at turbo models then unlike the Impreza and Forester, the Legacy up until 2003 used a sequential twin-turbo design, ie. a small turbo that boosts from 2K-4K RPM, then a valve opens and the second turbo joins in on the party, this causes a small dip in power (usually referred to as the VOD, valley of death, from how it looks on dyno charts) before you get the full boost going on. It's a matter of individual taste as to whether the improved low-end power is worth the momentary drop when you accelerate. Personally I loved mine to bits. Power is 280bhp on the manual, 260bhp on the auto however the cars are difficult to mod, reaching 350bhp is quite a lot of effort.

The Impreza estate over there is available in STi trim, so 280bhp from single turbo, the WRX version is also more powerful than the UK version. There is a also a Legacy STI, though this is a limited edition (S402) so expect to pay a premium for one of those. The Forester STI didn't come out until quite recently so probably not available within your age range. The turbo Foresters are basically the same as a WRX however speed and acceleration are slightly lower due to increased drag.

Of the three I would get the twin-turbo Legacy. If you go down this route try to find a GT/B variant rather than just the GT. The difference is the GT/B has Billstein suspension which is really really nice. I'd also pop over to uklegacy.com for some better advice. It's a bloody good forum with none of the idiocy that you will find on scoobynet.

If you're looking at non-turbo models then there's not much in it. They all use the same range of engines, however the Legacy gets the option of a 3.0 flat 6 in addition to the 2.0 and 2.5 flat four engines that are available on all 3 cars.

Also, you should consider the Nissan Stagea RS-Four. It's basically a Skyline estate with a 2.5 litre straight 6 turbo engine.

 

[fonzee]

Most Japanese cars have a bad image in Australia and NZ, especially if modified.

what the hell?

most of the cars in NZ were 90s jap jobbies, hardly a bad image?

true they have a huge boy racer problem out there but seeing as the majority of cars are Jap, the boy racers are bound to have Jap too arn't they.

 

[mintums]

After looking at Legacys for a few weeks I came across a nice Forester that I've been running for around 2 years now and for a car that cost me £2500 I can't think of many faults with it.

I got a 1997 JDM t/tb with the 2 litre turbo, allegedly making about 230bhp on UK fuel, although its linked to a pretty basic (and dimwitted) auto box.

If I'd have had more time to choose (I'd just lost my company car due to a job change) I'd have definitely gone for a manual.

Reliability is very good the only money I've spent has been on consumables - the air flow sensor is a common problem and can be a relatively expensive fix, and there is an issue with the wheel bearings if not fitted properly. Oil should be changed every 5000, but some people do it as often as every 3000. Brakes and filters are cheap if you shop around.

From what I remember the main thing to be careful of on all of the early boxer engines are noises from the bottom end. I've heard of a few cases where knocking has been ignored, leading to a seized engine and a hefty bill. Its easy to mix this up with piston slap which is another common issue, but one that is much less terminal.

This is a great resource although they are very Forester biased.

It doesn't look very great but I find it comfortable on long runs (I live in Thurso and make a trip to the Midlands every few months), it's relatively fast and I'm getting 27mpg on average so the economy isn't too bad either if you use it as a daily driver.

It's not what I'd call a fun drive, it can wallow in the corners but it wasn't bought as a car to have fun in the twisties. There are a number of simple relatively cheap upgrades to tighten the handling up, all discussed in the link above. I took the easy way out and bought a second car for fun driving.

Drop me an email if you want to know more, details should be in trust.

 

[Lum]

The MAF sensor issue is common to all the Subarus of this age. It's not that expensive to fix though, Scoobyclinic sell them for a little over 50 quid and they last about 50,000 miles.

This is assuming your Forester is the same age as what the OP is looking for, up until 1998 they used a different (better) design of MAF sensor that lasts a lot longer but you need to replace the entire tube for something like £130 when it finally goes. The MAF I'm on about there are two security torx bolts that hold the actual sensor into the tube, no need to remove the tube at all, it's a 5 minute job that even a muppet like me can do providing you own the correct torx bits.

 

[MeAnBoY]

Cant imagine the image problem is any worse than it is anywhere else in the world really. I guess it depends which circles you move in, and at the end of the day you shouldn't let it rule your choice in whcih car you decide to buy

 

[mintums]

...up until 1998 they used a different (better) design...

1997 model - and I had to have the MAF with a purple label. The pipe section and MAF set me back £340 but you're spot on, it was a simple 5 minute swap.

Mind you, it's good that Subaru monitor common issues in the older cars and make efforts to fix / minimise these on later models. This was clear when I was looking at getting new rear bearings. Subaru's guides are available online for free (called 'end wrench') which talk about new repair / replacement techniques and changes in design in order to remove the common faults. Nice quality to have in a manufacturer.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Ok, thanks for all the input, particularly Lum and mintums.

Yes, modded, tinted and lowered Imprezas, Evo's etc do get more police attention in NZ but for very good reason. What we would consider perhaps a little uncommon here is absolutely par for the course there in terms of pretty powerful JDM cars available to anyone. They're cheap, too, which is both good and bad.

Lum - I was already leaning towards the Legacy GTB for space/perceived "fun" reasons and your post and link has moved me into looking at this in more depth (I assume you're the same Lum on that forum, too ?) Also, I looked at some of the options for the Nissan Stagea on www.trademe.co.nz and although far fewer of them came up, it still looks very interesting. Any more info on this one?

mintums - thanks for the Forrester input, much appreciated. I note you mention "early models" - would an 01-03 plate be considered early? I used the age more for my own calculations of cost-to-purchase than due to engine spec so perhaps I should reconsider this.

More thoughts, experiences, direction appreciated!


edited because I can't spell another User's name

 

[Lum]

Lam - I was already leaning towards the Legacy GTB for space/perceived "fun" reasons and your post and link has moved me into looking at this in more depth (I assume you're the same Lam on that forum, too ?) Also, I looked at some of the options for the Nissan Stagea on www.trademe.co.nz and although far fewer of them came up, it still looks very interesting. Any more info on this one?

It's Lum, not Lam, but yes I'm on uklegacy.com with the same name.

There's not really much to say about the Stagea, it's for all intents and purposes based on the Skyline (technically it's based on the Laurel, but they're so similar it makes no odds) and has the Nissan RB25DET engine, though there are a few special editions with the RB26DETT engine (2.6 parallel twin turbo) from the Skyline GT-R. Have a look on sxoc.com as someone there has just bought one, or perhaps a better option would be the Stagea section on Skylines Australia.

For Legacies, the RS Liberty forums are also supposed to be good. (The Aussies call the car the Liberty since Legacy is the name of an Australian charity that looks after the victims of Japanese war crimes, and thus not a good choice of name for a Japanese car.)

 

[Sneaky Peaky]

Before I go any further I must tell you Forester is spelt with 1 R

I had a 55 plate Forester 2.5 XT and loved it, I've also had a WRX and an STi. Whilst it's true the Forester shares essentially the same chassis in reality they are very different cars to drive. The Forester being much taller and with softer suspension doesn't handle anywhere near a WRX or Sti, having said that it can be easily improved with bigger wheels and lower profile rubber and also most Impreza bits will go on it. As you would imagine there is also wealth of aftermarket modding and tuning options

Your choice between Impreza vs Forester really should be driven by personal choice and need

Forester Pros : Practicality (much more space) more comfortable, more than quick enough to give most people a scare, stealthy - hardly anyone knows what they are or what they are capable of. Easily tuned and modded within reason. High driving position etc etc

Impreza Pros : Much more focussed as a drivers car, still has a high degree of practicality especially in wagon form, presence and looks if you like the in your face styling, handling and grip is superb. Also easily tuned and modded

I ended up modding both cars substantially and had great fun with them - the Forester ended up at 340 bhp and 360 lbs ft and the impreza was 400 bhp and 470 lbs ft. Great fun but not cheap to run as 20 mpg is stretching things and insurance and tax is high..

The Forester scene seems to be quite big down under but they go for massive wheels and cruiser styling which is not my thing - have a look at GTrydaz.com to see what I mean !

Any specific questions though shout and I'll try and help..

Pete

Here's a couple of old pics just because it's been ages since I had the opportunity to pimp them