***Official Wrath of the Lich King Thread***(Contains spoilers)***
- Thread starter Teki187
- Start date
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How can you take one persons DPS and say its good or crap? how high your DPS is has a lot more to do with raid setup, especially how many other good DPSers there are in the raid... time taken to down a particular boss is equally if not more important a stat to your DPS on the fight.
You can't say something like "A high end geared <insert class> can do X amount of dps" ... it doesn't mean anything. I know people like to think their particular raid setup or some raid setup they read about on a forum (but clearly didn't understand) is the centre of WoW, but take anyone doing 7k dps on 2 minute patchwerk kills and plonk them in a guild doing 4 minute kills, and they won't be doing anywhere near 7k.
You can't say something like "A high end geared <insert class> can do X amount of dps" ... it doesn't mean anything. I know people like to think their particular raid setup or some raid setup they read about on a forum (but clearly didn't understand) is the centre of WoW, but take anyone doing 7k dps on 2 minute patchwerk kills and plonk them in a guild doing 4 minute kills, and they won't be doing anywhere near 7k.
On what boss and how long did it take them to kill it? You may very well get out dps'd by that same SP doing his arbitrary 5k dps if he came to your particular raid.
X dps doing anything doesn't mean a thing without the other 2 pieces of information.
You're the one talking ****, all he said was he was doing that DPS on patch, to which you called him lazy / bad... even though without a time to kill you don't know how good or bad that is.
I can comment, Out guild is everything full 25man naxx/Mally/Sarth. We all have best items in game at the moment.
We have all stance of classes, Retri palla, Boomkins, Feral druid dps, enh and ele shammys, We raid with everything so we get maxx buffs. Yes i play the unholy DK for +10% spell dmg debuff. But still we have a prot warrior stacking saunder armor for mellee and also a blood spec'd dk for ap buff. We stackk all the buffs be can to get max dps in our raids. So we know the classes taht are doing low dps, but we still take them for the buff to the raid they add.
We have all stance of classes, Retri palla, Boomkins, Feral druid dps, enh and ele shammys, We raid with everything so we get maxx buffs. Yes i play the unholy DK for +10% spell dmg debuff. But still we have a prot warrior stacking saunder armor for mellee and also a blood spec'd dk for ap buff. We stackk all the buffs be can to get max dps in our raids. So we know the classes taht are doing low dps, but we still take them for the buff to the raid they add.
I didn't see which boss he was talking about. You did, and I'm the one talking crap?
If the shadowpriest in his guild is "high end geared"; 5k dps for a shadowpriest on Patchwerk, a fight where there are no aggro issues, is crap. Whatever his raid setup. Have you ever played a shadowpriest? Or are you just talking **** yourself, or a crap dps'er in an crap guild?
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You still don't understand about time taken being the most important factor in all this?
Instead you quote andom DPS numbers which without context are utterly meaningless but still are enough for you to determin a bad player from a good player?
I don't know how else to explain this to you... take any guild doing 2 minute patchwerk kills, now take any of the DPS from that guild getting 7K+... put them in a worse guild that takes 4 minutes to down the boss, that DPSer is going to be lucky to see 5k DPS.
This is DPS 101, specific bosses and the time taken to down them are way too important factors to determin good DPS from bad DPS, it is impossible with a random number alone.
So someone saying "I did 5k DPS on patchwerk" doesn't mean anything, hes either a bad DPSer in a good guild or an amazing DPSer in a bad guild... you can't say either way without time taken. So yes, you are talking out of your **** completely on this, you just seen a number and decided this is the benchmark for everyone regardless of boss / time taken.
And Waso, thats 13% spell dmg not 10%... so Dark_Angel don't worry, you have someone who doesn't know their own class enough to read a tooltip and someone who knows nothing about what the pretty numbers that make up raid DPS actually means telling you you're bad.
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Yes there is. There is tier 7.5 which is item level 216, as compared to tier 7 which is item level 200.
Then there are the item level 226 drops which are currently best in slot. That is what I would consider high-end raiding gear, properly gemmed and enchanted of course.
Tier 7 being obtainable in ****-easy 10 man raids (not that the current 25 man ones are hard) is not high-end gear.
Then there are the item level 226 drops which are currently best in slot. That is what I would consider high-end raiding gear, properly gemmed and enchanted of course.
Tier 7 being obtainable in ****-easy 10 man raids (not that the current 25 man ones are hard) is not high-end gear.
We are not talking about pugs. We're talking about a raiding guild. He's given us a boss, he's given us a quantifiable gear check. Wheres the blunder? If high end raiding gear to you is heroes raiments and weapons from the badges vendors, fair enough.
Did you ever play a bugged MC? Or BWL? Or any difficult raid?
Did you ever play a bugged MC? Or BWL? Or any difficult raid?
You blunder(s) are:
a) taking X amount of raid DPS and deciding whether a player is good or not from that alone, showing obvious lack of understanding to what that array of numbers in your recount or w/e means.
b) seeing a couple of good bits of gear and somehow coming to the conclusion that hes in a good guild and hes the weak link of it, oblivious to the 25 man pugs picking that stuff up as we speak on I would imagine most of the realms (its happening on mine right now and its not even a good realm for PvE)
a) taking X amount of raid DPS and deciding whether a player is good or not from that alone, showing obvious lack of understanding to what that array of numbers in your recount or w/e means.
b) seeing a couple of good bits of gear and somehow coming to the conclusion that hes in a good guild and hes the weak link of it, oblivious to the 25 man pugs picking that stuff up as we speak on I would imagine most of the realms (its happening on mine right now and its not even a good realm for PvE)
A couple of good bits of gear? He's talking about warlocks pushing 7k dps. Warlocks would not be pushing that dps in a poorly geared raid. Or did you conveniently decide to ignore that bit?
We are not talking about a random pug. We are talking about a guild raid. Ergo we're talking about a team playing together who are better at playing together then a random pug. Ergo the composition will be more suited to the encounters. Ergo dps will be higher.
Is that easy enough for you?
We are not talking about a random pug. We are talking about a guild raid. Ergo we're talking about a team playing together who are better at playing together then a random pug. Ergo the composition will be more suited to the encounters. Ergo dps will be higher.
Is that easy enough for you?
I'm not sure I can break it down any more for you.
High end raiding gear. Denotes at least ilvl 216 in all slots.
Patchwerk. An aggro free fight.
Guild raid. No pug - Tactics - Better raid composition.
Warlocks pushing 7kdps denotes average gear of raid to be high (cf: previous definition).
Is that simple enough for you?
High end raiding gear. Denotes at least ilvl 216 in all slots.
Patchwerk. An aggro free fight.
Guild raid. No pug - Tactics - Better raid composition.
Warlocks pushing 7kdps denotes average gear of raid to be high (cf: previous definition).
Is that simple enough for you?
