Crufts and Kennel Club exposed! Dog owners must read.

Energize · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:24

Flying Gribble said:
Rubbish. There are 210 breeds that the Kennel club recognises. Perhaps a dozen had major, prevalent, health problems that caused large scale revision of the standards recently. The majority of breeds needed no change, and of those changes that did occur the majority were just a word or two.

Don't believe everything the kennel club tells you, (or rather don't believe anything the kennel club tells you).

Just a few common health problems with common breeds of dogs:

GSD - Hip/elbow Dsyplasia, bloat, ear infections
Siberian Husky - Hip Dsyplasia, glaucoma, cataracts
Dalmations - Deafness
Bulldogs - interdigital cysts, inability to give birth naturally
Doberman - dilated cardiomyopathy, cervical vertebral instability, von Willebrand's disease, prostatic disease
Labrador - hip and elbow dysplasia, luxating patella

Then of course there's all the problems mentioned in the video with other breeds.

Teki187 · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:31

Energize said:
Don't believe everything the kennel club tells you, (or rather don't believe anything the kennel club tells you).

Just a few common health problems with common breeds of dogs:

GSD - Hip/elbow Dsyplasia, bloat, ear infections
Siberian Husky - Hip Dsyplasia, glaucoma, cataracts
Dalmations - Deafness
Bulldogs - interdigital cysts, inability to give birth naturally
Doberman - dilated cardiomyopathy, cervical vertebral instability, von Willebrand's disease, prostatic disease
Labrador - hip and elbow dysplasia, luxating patella

Then of course there's all the problems mentioned in the video with other breeds.

Problem there is you have to link them to the show interbreeding that is happening.

Some of them might have always been a problem.

Greenlizard0 · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:35

So where are all these animal rights terrorists then? I'd have thought if the ****'s are going after scientists they'd be after dog breeders... :rolleyes:

NathanE · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:35

As long as the BBC aren't going back on their decision to not show Crufts live on TV.

steveo · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:36

we have a gorgous Bichon frise that we have had since it was safe for him to leave his mum, we never wanted to put him in shows or competitions and while many have said that casper should have been put down at birth because of so called defects its bloody disgusting the looks we get of other bichon owners that put there dogs in shows :mad:

Energize · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:52

Teki187 said:
Some of them might have always been a problem.

Indeed some have always been a problem, the breeds need to be changed to stop them, if the kennel club keep the standards the same, then they will continue to happen. I'd really like a Husky or GSD, but I'm not going to buy from breeders who try to match the kennel clubs diseased standards.

Teki187 · 1 Mar 2009 at 19:58

Energize said:
Indeed some have always been a problem, the breeds need to be changed to stop them, if the kennel club keep the standards the same, then they will continue to happen. I'd really like a Husky or GSD, but I'm not going to buy from breeders who try to match the kennel clubs diseased standards.

I always recommend friends who want labradors to check the persons pedigree and make sure there hip, elbow and eye scored.

At least that way if the breeder has them, there actively trying to remove the genetic problems they have.

atpbx · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:07

Energize said:
Don't believe everything the kennel club tells you, (or rather don't believe anything the kennel club tells you).

Just a few common health problems with common breeds of dogs:

GSD - Hip/elbow Dsyplasia, bloat, ear infections
Siberian Husky - Hip Dsyplasia, glaucoma, cataracts
Dalmations - Deafness
Bulldogs - interdigital cysts, inability to give birth naturally
Doberman - dilated cardiomyopathy, cervical vertebral instability, von Willebrand's disease, prostatic disease
Labrador - hip and elbow dysplasia, luxating patella

Then of course there's all the problems mentioned in the video with other breeds.

Still not as many common diseases as human beings, but when we try to stop people with genetic problems and hereditary diseases breeding its called breaching their human rights.

lord filbuster · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:09

atpbx said:
Still not as many common diseases as human beings, but when we try to stop people with genetic problems and hereditary diseases breeding its called breaching their human rights.

LOL! How fantastically irrelevent. They are not human, so no rights, the incidence of genetic disease in humans is much lower, regardless of the actual number of unique conditions, and i reckon forcing people to breed in order to keep such traits also violates their human rights.

Flying Gribble · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:20

Energize said:
Indeed some have always been a problem, the breeds need to be changed to stop them, if the kennel club keep the standards the same, then they will continue to happen. I'd really like a Husky or GSD, but I'm not going to buy from breeders who try to match the kennel clubs diseased standards.

They did change earlier this year. My own breed had suffered from Patella Luxation (slipping kneecaps) - which would not have ever been picked up by the breed standard, nor was unique to the breed. In fact, the breed standard would have actively discriminated against it since it would begin to affect their gait. Since the 90's the breed club has been encouraging testing and for several years has been publishing the results on their website. I'd only ever recommend buying from tested parents.

Flying Gribble · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:24

steveo said:
we have a gorgous Bichon frise that we have had since it was safe for him to leave his mum, we never wanted to put him in shows or competitions and while many have said that casper should have been put down at birth because of so called defects its bloody disgusting the looks we get of other bichon owners that put there dogs in shows

My own dog is way outside the breed standard at 16" tall rather than 10-12", but when we took him to the breed show (to watch, not take part) we only ever had nice comments. My daughter even had an article about him published in the breed club magazine and his photo appears in the only book written about the breed.

He's perfectly healthy, active and happy - just a little big and heavy for a lap-dog

Like I said - different breeds, different breeders, different attitudes.

Teki187 · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:37

Flying Gribble said:
They did change earlier this year.

Do you know what was actually changed?

Because if you look at it VERY closely, you'll notice that the breeders "DONT!" have to abide by these new rules, meaning there just "guidelines".

The rule changes are completely pointless.

Adnams Drinker · 1 Mar 2009 at 20:47

I remember watching that documentary when it was first broadcast and it made my blood boil. I vowed and declared then that if we ever had a dog, no way would it be mutilated to conform with some arbitrary breed standard decided by some bunch of inbred old duffers living in the past.

Fast forward to the present day and we have two adorable, nutty Springer Spaniels - whose mother and father, unlike most of the dogs in that film, are totally unrelated - and who I'm happy to say, still have all the body parts they were born with.

I don't know what the breed standard for Springers consists of and I've made no effort to find out because, frankly, I couldn't give a toss - most of the time, this breed standard B.S. is nothing to do with the health of the dog and everything to do with human snobbery or vanity and our dogs will be having no part of it.

Flying Gribble · 1 Mar 2009 at 21:02

Teki187 said:
Do you know what was actually changed?

Because if you look at it VERY closely, you'll notice that the breeders "DONT!" have to abide by these new rules, meaning there just "guidelines".

The rule changes are completely pointless.

Yes, I've looked at some of them - my breed had the word "relatively" added. In fact the breed standard changes (which have always been guidelines rather than rules) are being enforced at this years Crufts, and the judges are being monitored to ensure they do. If the breeders don't follow them then they won't win.
Times article about judging at Crufts 2009

Teki187 · 1 Mar 2009 at 21:10

Flying Gribble said:
Yes, I've looked at some of them - my breed had the word "relatively" added. In fact the breed standard changes (which have always been guidelines rather than rules) are being enforced at this years Crufts, and the judges are being monitored to ensure they do. If the breeders don't follow them then they won't win.
Times article about judging at Crufts 2009

Just like Ref's are meant to in sports games?

You really think these "enforced rules" will actually change the judges mind at all?

Because it will have VERY little impact.

Flying Gribble · 1 Mar 2009 at 21:18

Teki187 said:
Just like Ref's are meant to in sports games?

You really think these "enforced rules" will actually change the judges mind at all?

Because it will have VERY little impact.

OK.

Well you're obviously omniscient then. I bow before your prescience, oh great and sagacious one.

At this point I'll leave the thread. Just sorry that I rose to the troll bait.

Teki187 · 1 Mar 2009 at 21:19

Flying Gribble said:
OK. Well you're obviously omniscient then. I bow before your prescience, oh great and sagacious one.

At this point I'll leave the thread. Just sorry that I rose to the troll bait.

Because someone doesn't agree with your opinion you leave the discussion?

Bizarre.

Flying Gribble · 1 Mar 2009 at 21:28

Teki187 said:
Because someone doesn't agree with your opinion you leave the discussion?

Bizarre.

No, because you've obviously got your mind set on one thing and will blindly ignore anything to the contrary even when presented with factual evidence - ergo a debate is almost pointless. I've got more important things to do than try and have a futile rational discussion under such circumstances.

Damn, I knew shouldn't hit F5.

wordy · 9 Mar 2009 at 13:36

I remember watching that documentry when it was first aired, and I thought it was the most biased, one sided piece of crap journalism Ive ever seen, I wonder if the presenter did her work experience at the Sun.

Yes it does highlight some serious problems with a dozen or so breeds out of the 200 odd recognised by the KC, and of course this is inexcusable and should be changed. But all that person did was show the worst of the breeders and selectively quote the KC guy. I mean that stupid cow who was talking about the ridgeback without the ridge. How many sensible & caring Reidgeback breeders do you think they interviewed before they found that prissy old twit?

Call me old fashioned but effective journalism should provide a balanced arguement both for and against the subject matter and let the viewer draw their oewn conclusions.

V4NT0M · 9 Mar 2009 at 13:39

wordy said:
Call me old fashioned but effective journalism should provide a balanced arguement both for and against the subject matter and let the viewer draw their oewn conclusions.

What balanced argument is there for breeding dogs to death?