What should we expect people to do for work?

singist · 9 Mar 2009 at 21:39

I wonder where all the jobs are supposed to be.

When I was young, if you didn't get into higher education you went into further education and/or a trade or manually skilled job, of which there were quite a few: Given that we no longer actually produce steel, ships, coal, clothing or most other things, and that places like Leeds have become paper shuffling centres for banking and insurance, what do we seriously expect these youngsters to do?

There must be loads of places around this country where there are 4th generation 'non workers' who have only khown benefits and the like; sometimes it's their fault but if the manufacturing base has gone, what do we expect them to do?

The other thing is, .... even those who go into higher education can't find employment; ie we have several of music colleges with fantastic reputations, turning out hundreds of graduates a year into a country where the likelyhood of full time professional employment is tiny: even counting teaching, there are very few vacancies ..... where are these hopefuls going to go and what are they going to do? certainly not what they graduated in! They can't all become bankers

. I'm sure that the same applies to other professions.

We all tend to have a go at 'council estate scroungers' etc but I don't think that it is quite that simple ....... your thoughts?

DB_SamX · 9 Mar 2009 at 21:50

I think there are still opportunities out there, if you are flexible and not too fussy. However competition is fierce.

Having said that, I am not sure what exactly I would do if I got made redundant. My industry isn't recruiting that much atm, if at all. I'd try my hand at policing - it's always been my backup job.

Sonea Fifer · 9 Mar 2009 at 21:59

singist said:
I wonder where all the jobs are supposed to be.

There must be loads of places around this country where there are 4th generation 'non workers' who have only khown benefits and the like; sometimes it's their fault but if the manufacturing base has gone, what do we expect them to do?

Simple answer - close all the foreign call centres and bring the jobs back. Granted the people we all speak to might be just as completely useless but at least we'd be able to understand them!

singist said:
The other thing is, .... even those who go into higher education can't find employment; ie we have several of music colleges with fantastic reputations, turning out hundreds of graduates a year into a country where the likelyhood of full time professional employment is tiny: even counting teaching, there are very few vacancies ..... where are these hopefuls going to go and what are they going to do? certainly not what they graduated in! They can't all become bankers . I'm sure that the same applies to other professions.

That may explain why so many people are hoping / planning on emigrating?

singist · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:01

DB_SamX said:
I think there are still opportunities out there, if you are flexible and not too fussy. However competition is fierce.

Having said that, I am not sure what exactly I would do if I got made redundant. My industry isn't recruiting that much atm, if at all. I'd try my hand at policing - it's always been my backup job.

You might think so but try actually finding something.

p.s. you may wish to amend your signature regarding pros if you want to avoid any confusion between the contraction of professionals and those in favour of a proposal.

Moredhel · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:11

Sonea Fifer said:
Simple answer - close all the foreign call centres and bring the jobs back. Granted the people we all speak to might be just as completely useless but at least we'd be able to understand them!

That may explain why so many people are hoping / planning on emigrating?

And how do you convince businesses that they should spend a hell of a lot more on support for the same level of service?

DB_SamX · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:34

singist said:
p.s. you may wish to amend your signature regarding pros if you want to avoid any confusion between the contraction of professionals and those in favour of a proposal.

Good point but you could argue the same about pizza's, as in "The pizza's ready.", which is also a contraction of "pizza is", and other words ending in a vowel. So, I am going to leave them as they are, as I am referring to the words' plurals in this case.

Back on topic, I have no doubt it is easier said than done to find a job atm. I'd certainly have to lower my expectations and standards.

Reality|Bites · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:38

lets all move to Poland and India and take all their jobs

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:38

How about some better funding to colleges? I'm being asked to *pay* to do an apprenticeship, thats if they even find an employer willing to take me on. :rolleyes:

Reality|Bites said:
lets all move to Poland and India and take all their jobs

Czech Republic doesn't look too bad if you have a chance to emigrate. May as well use the EU rules to one's advantage. Free HE and only 19% fixed income tax...just have to learn the language...

MikeHunt79 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:50

What should we expect people to do for work?

Become civil servants?

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:51

MikeHunt79 said:
Become civil servants?

There's already 10 million of those...

St0rmer66 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:53

I think what has screwed us over in terms of manufacturing is having such a high minimum wage (compared to other countries). It's both a blessing and a curse.

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:55

St0rmer66 said:
I think what has screwed us over in terms of manufacturing is having such a high minimum wage (compared to other countries). It's both a blessing and a curse.

High? You try living on £9,500 a year after tax in London, on your own then. Should we reduce ourselves to slaves like 30 million of the Chinese?

Pilky01 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:56

Work on the tills in Asda.

Pigeon · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:58

It is tough out there if you fall off the apprenticeship/college/uni/job with progression or training ladder. I have found it is no good to leave university to get the job you want as an apprenticeship to finish the apprenticeship but still have no job. I then joined a company that while I got good experience in customer service/IT Support I got no qualifications as the company was small/skint all the time. Now I am out of work again and all I have are A levels and a NVQ level 2. My IT skills are unwanted as they are all with Macs and I don't have enough qualifications in MS Office or typing to get office work!

The jobs I apply for are being chased by many other people as in 100's per post, and quite often I am hearing of graduates/people with applying for the same basic wage type job (Administration/Office work). I am now applying for all sorts of work but so far no interviews at all.

The government/job centre could help more. They mentioned some short courses to get myself some basic IT qualifications but when I tried to follow it up I have not got anywhere. Even so I am now stuffed as far as career progression if I am out of IT. What do I do get a basic job and stay there? Look for a job I want to do and try to get in as a trainee again (none found so far and apprenticeship wages do not appeal). It takes 18 months before they will encourage you to do a new deal which is basically work and train again to get your job seekers, without a gaurentee of a job afterwards. I could try to go back to uni but I will be 30 and very skint and in debt when I get out, and then possibly still struggle for work if I get the subject choice wrong.

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 22:59

Pigeon said:
It is tough out there if you fall off the apprenticeship/college/uni/job with progression or training ladder. I have found it is no good to leave university to get the job you want as an apprenticeship to finish the apprenticeship but still have no job. I then joined a company that while I got good experience in customer service/IT Support I got no qualifications as the company was small/skint all the time. Now I am out of work again and all I have are A levels and a NVQ level 2. My IT skills are unwanted as they are all with Macs and I don't have enough qualifications in MS Office or typing to get office work!

The jobs I apply for are being chased by many other people as in 100's per post, and quite often I am hearing of graduates/people with applying for the same basic wage type job (Administration/Office work). I am now applying for all sorts of work but so far no interviews at all.

The government/job centre could help more. They mentioned some short courses to get myself some basic IT qualifications but when I tried to follow it up I have not got anywhere. Even so I am now stuffed as far as career progression if I am out of IT. What do I do get a basic job and stay there? Look for a job I want to do and try to get in as a trainee again (none found so far and apprenticeship wages do not appeal). I could try to go back to uni but I will be 30 and very skint and in debt when I get out, and then possibly still struggle for work if I get the subject choice wrong.

You can get ITQ (which is basic stuff really) free via Learndirect. Not that I personally recommend them or anything.

But if you have A-levels, do a Diploma at a college or something? Obviously you'll have to wait till September...

Pilky01 · 9 Mar 2009 at 23:00

sr4470 said:
High? You try living on £9,500 a year after tax in London, on your own then. Should we reduce ourselves to slaves like 30 million of the Chinese?

Yes compared to other nations it is very high.

No we should not reduce ourselves to slaves like the Chinese, it is perfectly possible to live on minimum wage, if you cannot live on it then you need to get a better job or adjust your lifestyle.

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 23:01

Pilky01 said:
Yes compared to other nations it is very high.

No we should not reduce ourselves to slaves like the Chinese, it is perfectly possible to live on minimum wage, if you cannot live on it then you need to get a better job or adjust your lifestyle.

Isn't that the point of this thread? Social mobility doesn't exist. Easier said than done when 500 people are chasing the same job...

Vonhelmet · 9 Mar 2009 at 23:13

Pilky01 said:
Yes compared to other nations it is very high.

No we should not reduce ourselves to slaves like the Chinese, it is perfectly possible to live on minimum wage, if you cannot live on it then you need to get a better job or adjust your lifestyle.

Well, it's chicken and egg. The cost of living in this country is absurd, so the minimum wage has to be absurd.

Fubsy · 9 Mar 2009 at 23:17

Pilky, what happens, when after a period of time you keep lowering your expectations, and end up applying at the likes of McDonald's, KFC, Pizza Hut etc, yet get no luck there?

It's happened to me. I had some issues, personal problems, that messed up my head, I needed time away from work/education and had just finished a temp contract. I gave myself 2 months then went back looking for work.

I haven't got much in terms of quals, basic GCSE's, a fitness intructors cert and some AS levels.

I got rejected by McDonald's, I'm not an idiot, or social retard, where do I go from there? How do you think that makes me feel?

I'm currently seriously thinking of going to uni, it's probably the best thing for me to do, but I'm not going to get into an amazing uni for what I want to do and realistically now I'm looking at doing a Law degree at Edge Hill (of all places, whats the point, but I feel I have no choice due to my situation and crap grades, which isn't all my own fault, **** happens and time goes by)

Indy500 · 9 Mar 2009 at 23:19

Fubsy said:
Pilky, what happens, when after a period of time you keep lowering your expectations, and end up applying at the likes of McDonald's, KFC, Pizza Hut etc, yet get no luck there?

It's happened to me. I had some issues, personal problems, that messed up my head, I needed time away from work/education and had just finished a temp contract. I gave myself 2 months then went back looking for work.

I haven't got much in terms of quals, basic GCSE's, a fitness intructors cert and some AS levels.

I got rejected by McDonald's, I'm not an idiot, or social retard, where do I go from there? How do you think that makes me feel?

I'm currently seriously thinking of going to uni, it's probably the best thing for me to do, but I'm not going to get into an amazing uni for what I want to do and realistically now I'm looking at doing a Law degree at Edge Hill (of all places, whats the point, but I feel I have no choice due to my situation and crap grades, which isn't all my own fault, **** happens and time goes by)

If graduates are having trouble it is something more fundamental than the individual. We don't dictate the market, the companies do.