It's Luton, there be protests.

Chimerical · 10 Mar 2009 at 22:57

What's wrong with them protesting?

Sankari · 10 Mar 2009 at 22:58

RDM said:
We live in a supposdly free country with the right to protest. Just because I don't agree with the protest doesn't mean it shouldn't go ahead. I do however think that they are protesting against the wrong people and that by protesting they do very little to help the image of their religion.

This would be fine if they were merely exercising free speech. But they're not. They're openly defaming soldiers by accusing them of war crimes, and subjecting them to bigoted hate speech. That's got to be actionable, surely.

It always strikes me as odd that you never see Muslims protesting in the streets against the thousands of suicide bombs/car bombs/IEDs with which their Muslim brethren have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people (most of them fellow Muslims). I'd love to hear them try to defend this blatant double standard.

Chimerical said:
What's wrong with them protesting?

Nothing at all. But that's not all they're doing.

If you're a returned British soldier and I stand outside your house holding a placard which says "No more war in Afghanistan", that's fine. But if my placard accuses you of "killing, maiming and raping thousands of innocent people", I've crossed the line.

Spuff Monkey · 10 Mar 2009 at 22:59

Aren't the protesters stereotyping the soldiers? Saying that they are all guilty of killing, maiming and raping the innocent?

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:00

singist said:
send in platinum87, sort it once and for all!

I don't see how more(?) rape and war crimes will help.

int · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:00

Evangelion said:
This would be fine if they were merely exercising free speech. But they're not. They're openly defaming soldiers by accusing them of war crimes, and subjecting them to bigoted hate speech. That's got to be actionable, surely.

It always strikes me as odd that you never see Muslims protesting in the streets against the thousands of suicide bombs/car bombs/IEDs with which their Muslim brethren have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people (most of them fellow Muslims). I'd love to hear them try to defend this blatant double standard.

Good points here

Yet again this will turn into a thread with one side against, one side for and a (rare) few sensible people in the middle.

fini · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:05

Try to count the number of demonstrators - there are ten at most. Ten idiots with signs, using their democratic right to be misguided, engenders frankly bizarre and ridiculous little Englander comments - some people on here really need to have a look at their attitude towards others.

Chimerical · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:06

Evangelion said:
Nothing at all. But that's not all they're doing.

If you're a returned British soldier and I stand outside your house holding a placard which says "No more war in Afghanistan", that's fine. But if my placard accuses you of "killing, maiming and raping thousands of innocent people", I've crossed the line.

Well, they should expect it to be honest. I'm sure they're aware that such accusations will be and have been made. Obviously the raping of thousands stuff isn't true of the British soldiers but you can't go to war without expecting severely biased protests to crop up. The only thing I don't agree with is picketing a dead soldier's funeral (something that the Westboro Baptist Church enjoy doing).

I'm so used to us stereotyping Muslims all the time that I don't really care about some accusatory protests.

ironman · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:07

If you have a group of white lads causing trouble in the centre of Leeds, is your next thread going to be White people in Leeds? Thought not...

Chimerical · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:10

gurdas said:
If you have a group of white lads causing trouble in the centre of Leeds, is your next thread going to be White people in Leeds? Thought not...

I'd imagine that thread would be entitled "Knife Crime and the Youth of today".

Voltar · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:10

Azagoth said:
Scum! Nothing but pure scum! Religion of peace and tolerance my arse!

+1

They shouldn't be able to do what they're doing as it's a religious hate crime and not 'freedom of speech'.

Send the ******* lot of 'em back and see whether they still have the same opinion or even the same amount of benefits.

Had I been there I would have felt a strong urge to throw a brick at them.

Chimerical · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:11

Voltar said:
+1

They shouldn't be able to do what they're doing as it's a religious hate crime and not 'freedom of speech'.

Send the ******* lot of 'em back and see whether they still have the same opinion or even the same amount of benefits.

Had I been there I would have felt a strong urge to throw a brick at them.

Its a shame you have that opinion.

chumpit · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:11

Well from a legal stand poitn, they can be arrested! but i doubt the police would arrest em for it,
The Public Order Act 1986

[4A Intentional harassment, alarm or distress]

[(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the person who is harassed, alarmed or distressed is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove—

(a) that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

(b) that his conduct was reasonable.

(4) A constable may arrest without warrant anyone he reasonably suspects is committing an offence under this section.

(5) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]

Fledge · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:14

Kami said:
You can go into any estate in the country and fine people like that who are of different race and different religion or even no religion.

Now you, my friend, are steroetyping towns for having diverse communities. We have less than 10 muslims here in our 6000+ population town!

Eat it

fini · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:17

Evangelion said:
This would be fine if they were merely exercising free speech. But they're not. They're openly defaming soldiers by accusing them of war crimes, and subjecting them to bigoted hate speech. That's got to be actionable, surely.

It is impossible to defame a group of people - you can only defame a company or individuals. In any case defamation is a civil matter - what would you propose - that soldiers sue them?

Evangelion said:
It always strikes me as odd that you never see Muslims protesting in the streets against the thousands of suicide bombs/car bombs/IEDs with which their Muslim brethren have slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people (most of them fellow Muslims)

Do you see ANYONE of any religion protesting in the streets against suicide bombings?

fini · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:19

chumpit said:
Well from a legal stand poitn, they can be arrested! but i doubt the police would arrest em for it,
The Public Order Act 1986

Not true - read up on how this interfaces with HRA rights - also take in to account that (as far as I could see) none of the signs were aimed at individuals.

Macabre · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:20

Scum. They can ** off back to their own country tbh, demonstrating with their crap here. Seriously why do we let trash like this into our country and furthermore let them demonstrate.

Fully star any swearing

helpimcrap · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:21

Le_Petit_Lapin said:
I'm of the opinion that not all Muslims share the views of those extremist nutcase protesters.

+1 but the thing with muslims is the extremists you cannot touch hence they become stronger and there seems to be less choice as each muslim either has to or is an outcast. no 'maybe's'.

like any culture theres good and bad but the ironic thing for me is for a religion based around peace they don't half use the religion as an excuse to kill people.

fini · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:23

Macabre said:
Scum. They can ** off back to their own country tbh, demonstrating with their crap here. Seriously why do we let trash like this into our country and furthermore let them demonstrate.

After all they're clearly foreign? :confused:

Why do you assume that protesters must be from somewhere else? Would you say that they can go 'back to their own country' if you heard of a group of Christian's protesting?

helpimcrap said:
but the thing with muslims is the extremists you cannot touch hence they become stronger and there seems to be less choice as each muslim either has to or is an outcast. no 'maybe's'.

Where on earth did you get this idea from that 'each muslim either has to [become an extremist] or is an outcast'??

chumpit · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:27

fini said:
After all they're clearly foreign? Why do you assume that protesters must be from somewhere else? Would you say that they can go 'back to their own country' if you heard of a group of Christian's protesting?

im just surpised by the reaction from the locals, if the police werent there. who knows what would have happened.
All it is a group of idiot kids who need to grow up...

Chimerical · 10 Mar 2009 at 23:30

chumpit said:
im just surpised by the reaction from the locals, if the police werent there. who knows what would have happened.
All it is a group of idiot kids who need to grow up...

Not really. I can see why they're still angry about the war and I guess the soldiers marching through is an insult to them.

I'm much more annoyed by the reaction of the locals thinking they can get in there and start setting the world to rights.