NIST admits freefall speed

Sankari · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:50

dowie said:
FWIW they weren't arabs in a cave - the 'master mind' - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - lived in Kuwait, has a degree in mechanical engineering and was educated in the US

The group's leader - Mohamed Atta - studied architecture at Cairo university and a University in Hamberg and was living in Germany prior to the attacks.

Don't forget the patron of the plot - Osama Bin Laden - who studied economics, business administration and civil engineering at university.

None of these guys were simply "Arabs in caves". They were modern men with modern educations living modern lives.

AJUK · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:50

Fire Wizard said:
It still doesn't mean they don't have the capabilities of pulling of such attacks. You would hope that they don't have such capabilities but events such as those that happened on September the 11th 2001 show that they do.

You can never really know what sort of resources these people have access to and to simply think that they will only go as far as suicide bombers, car bombs and gunmen attacks, I think its a very narrow-minded (That isn't meant in a nasty way) and dangerous view to have in my opinion.

I understand your points and how my dismissal of their abilities could be construed as dangerous. However, there are simpler ways of dealing with these people. For example, the recent arrests of the pakistani 'students'; if the source of most of this terrorism is Pakistan, as they keep telling us, Surely the safety of the public takes priority over the educational needs of some nobody from another continent. Why the **** are we giving visas to these people. The answer can only be that the government want these sort of individuals in this country in order to legitimise the continual restriction of freedoms.

Quite frankly, I am more frightened of my own government than I am of some raghead with a distorted view of Islam.

AJUK · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:52

Evangelion said:
Don't forget the patron of the plot - Osama Bin Laden - who studied economics, business administration and civil engineering at university.

None of these guys were simply "Arabs in caves". They were modern men with modern educations living modern lives.

Why is he in a cave then?

I will refer you to my post above, why the **** are we educating these people in the first place.

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:53

AJUK said:
I understand your points and how my dismissal of their abilities could be construed as dangerous. However, there are simpler ways of dealing with these people. For example, the recent arrests of the pakistani 'students'; if the source of most of this terrorism is Pakistan, as they keep telling us, Surely the safety of the public takes priority over the educational needs of some nobody from another continent. Why the **** are we giving visas to these people. The answer can only be that the government want these sort of individuals in this country in order to legitimise the continual restriction of freedoms.

Quite frankly, I am more frightened of my own government than I am of some raghead with a distorted view of Islam.

what rubbish, you can't a hole country for a few individuals..

Sankari · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:55

AJUK said:
The answer can only be that the government want these sort of individuals in this country in order to legitimise the continual restriction of freedoms.

No, that's not the only answer. There are plenty of legitimate alternatives, one of which is that the government had no legal grounds for rejecting their visas.

I could go and blow up my local McDonald's tomorrow. Would you then claim that the only possible reason that the government let me into the country 5 years ago was because they wanted to "legitimise the continual restriction of freedoms"?

The government let me into this country because (a) they had no valid reason for denying entry at the time of my application, and (b) I satisfied all the legal requirements.

AJUK · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:55

We interned all Germans and Italians that were here during WW2 and the US did the same with Japanese. They tell us daily that we are war, what's the difference?

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:56

AJUK said:
We interned all Germans and Italians that were here during WW2 and the US did the same with Japanese. They tell us daily that we are war, what's the difference?

50 odd years of civilisation and human rights. It's called progress. It's also no were near the same scale of war. The two aren't comparable.

AJUK · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:57

Evangelion said:
...

The government let me into this country because (a) they had no valid reason for denying entry at the time of my application, and (b) I satisfied all the legal requirements.

Another area that needs looking at.

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:58

AJUK said:
Another area that needs looking at.

and it is being. They will now screen the names against secret services and have added a lot more checks to the student visa application.

Rroff · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:59

At the very least I'm convinced they knew in advance or had high suspicion of it happening... you don't cancel 1 meeting let alone 2 on the same day involving foreign dignitaries + security detail and tight timetables on a whim and I can see why they wouldn't want them in WTC on that day if it was domestic planned or suspected/known of.

AJUK · 11 Apr 2009 at 12:59

AcidHell2 said:
50 odd years of civilisation and human rights. It's called progress. It's also no were near the same scale of war. The two aren't comparable.

Then you can look forward to living under the jackboot because they will use the current situation to destroy and restrict the very way of life that was fought for in WW2.

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:00

Rroff said:
At the very least I'm convinced they knew in advance or had high suspicion of it happening... you don't cancel 1 meeting let alone 2 on the same day involving foreign dignitaries + security detail and tight timetables on a whim and I can see why they wouldn't want them in WTC on that day if it was domestic planned or suspected/known of.

source + details of how many meetings have been cancelled in the past.

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:01

AJUK said:
Then you can look forward to living under the jackboot because they will use the current situation to destroy and restrict the very way of life that was fought for in WW2.

what?
your ideas is the destroying of freedom.

Sankari · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:01

AJUK said:
Why is he in a cave then?

Is he? It's my understanding that nobody knows where he is. He might be in a cave; he might be in a tent; he might be in a house; he might be driving a brand new Winnebago down Sunset Boulevard.

We know that he was in a cave at some point during his time in Afghanistan, and we know that he was there because he was hiding from the Yanks with his band of merry mujahideen. None of this has any bearing on his mental capacity, his education, or his ability to orchestrate terrorist attacks.

I will refer you to my post above, why the **** are we educating these people in the first place.

I will refer you to my previous post above.

mcast123 · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:01

To anyone believing in this conspiracy rubbish let me ask one hypothetical question.

If you were in any of the towers below where they were hit, you knew 100% there was no demolition in place and a 300-400 ton airliner flying at 550mph was coming, how long would you stay in the building?

What is more likely? (ref to this thread) A government organisation made a mistake in their calculations and tried to not reveal themselves as incompetent OR they are part of a massive US plot to destroy the twin towers.

dowie · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:04

AJUK said:
Why is he in a cave then?

I will refer you to my post above, why the **** are we educating these people in the first place.

what "people" - are you just ignorant or racist or both?

Rroff · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:12

AcidHell2 said:
source + details of how many meetings have been cancelled in the past.

Can't give you a source its something from my own experience, from a company I previously worked for (pittards) and my dad was head of the dept involved, we had 3 people due in the WTC that day for 2 different, but related, international standards meetings, which involved minor dignitaries from around the global trade reps, members of european parliament, etc. I've never heard of one cancelled, but its not something I have much experience in, my dad who has 30 years experience and attended some himself remarked on how unusual it was, hes never known 1 to be cancelled before.

It was a horrible experience my dad was convinced they were dead just sitting sprawled on the hall floor with the house phone and every mobile he could borrow trying to find out details.

Glaucus · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:18

I can't even fond conspiracy sites that report cancelled conferences.
What conference was it?

deuse · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:19

mcast123 said:
To anyone believing in this conspiracy rubbish let me ask one hypothetical question.

If you were in any of the towers below where they were hit, you knew 100% there was no demolition in place and a 300-400 ton airliner flying at 550mph was coming, how long would you stay in the building?

In tower 2 they was told to go back in and all was ok
then the second plane hit

What is more likely? (ref to this thread) A government organisation made a mistake in their calculations and tried to not reveal themselves as incompetent OR they are part of a massive US plot to destroy the twin towers.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.giuliani.was.warned.wmv

then he changed his mind

Rroff · 11 Apr 2009 at 13:25

AcidHell2 said:
I can't even fond conspiracy sites that report cancelled conferences.
What conference was it?

This isn't something your going to find information of online, and not something I can backup either, I wasn't involved with it directly my dad was the head of dept and I was just a lowly lab assistant so I don't know exact details.

For me its too high a coincidence for there not to have been something known in advance one way or another but unless you worked with me you couldn't really see it in the light I do.