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Dead 8800gtx, EVGA RMA nightmare

first of all thanks for the update and letting everyone know your experiences.


I think it's shocking that they would treat a customer like that, I mean dust is part of any house and to jump to the conclusion of dust ruining the card is just... shocking

I for one won't even go near them, they have now lost over £400 of custom as I am building my PC just now and was going to use them for a mobo and gfx card.
 
While they clearly bent you over the table first time round, I have to say something. I work in support, and if I got an email like the one you sent to that big boss dude, I'd read it and think "there's one twonk who shall be getting the party line, and nothing more". You get more flies with honey than vinegar. Should have been nice as pie initially, then upped the aggro if you got nowhere.
Still, I too am glad I listened, and bought a BFG.
 
I agree somewhat with above, having worked in IT, when complaints happen, the best thing to do as a customer is be polite, or the staffs motivation to help you won't go far. Screaming and moaning from the outset just makes things worse, i've been in the situation before.

I bought a BFG card incidentally, paying a premium for the warranty, and their support seems spot on at the moment. It's a shame to see EVGA aren't being as accomadating as previously, though it's hardly suprising in a recession that they will be looking to minimise costs.

As far as dust in the fan goes, if the dust did block the fan and stop it, they are entitled to refuse RMA, but from your description of temperatures and reguar cleaning it sounds a bit suspect. I have an 8800GTS in a second machine, and when looking at it recently, a lot of dust has built up between the case and the heatsink despite me cleaning with compressed air. If this caused a failure, I would have problems, as I believe I can't remove the stock heatsink to remove the dust without voiding the warranty. I just hope that BFG will be more accomodating in understanding this.

It's a grey area, but will be defined by how good/forgiving a company's support is.
 
I've RMA'd my old 680i 2x due to FF failures - they sent me a new one each time within 2 weeks. I've been very happy with eVGA and the email support they've given me.

Sorry to hear about your problems. But If i were the guy you emailed and got an email like that I would probably tell you where to go as well.

If you are emailing someone to try get something out of it that they don't have to give you, don't swear and insult them. Be polite and point out that you've tried it and it still works so would they please consider taking it back another time...

I know you were frustrated, but emails like that don't help you at all.
 
alexhull24 said:
I agree somewhat with above, having worked in IT, when complaints happen, the best thing to do as a customer is be polite, or the staffs motivation to help you won't go far. Screaming and moaning from the outset just makes things worse, i've been in the situation before.

I bought a BFG card incidentally, paying a premium for the warranty, and their support seems spot on at the moment. It's a shame to see EVGA aren't being as accomadating as previously, though it's hardly suprising in a recession that they will be looking to minimise costs.

As far as dust in the fan goes, if the dust did block the fan and stop it, they are entitled to refuse RMA, but from your description of temperatures and reguar cleaning it sounds a bit suspect. I have an 8800GTS in a second machine, and when looking at it recently, a lot of dust has built up between the case and the heatsink despite me cleaning with compressed air. If this caused a failure, I would have problems, as I believe I can't remove the stock heatsink to remove the dust without voiding the warranty. I just hope that BFG will be more accomodating in understanding this.

It's a grey area, but will be defined by how good/forgiving a company's support is.
Click to expand...

You need only remove the shroud from the heatsink to clean it out, just gave my GTS it's 10,000 frag service a coupla weeks ago before lending it to a mate.
 
Andy-Jones-OC said:
Im not surprised they fobbing you off with the amount of people now adays abusing the warrnty and RMA. See the thread where a guys thinking about microwaving his card to get a free upgrade.
Click to expand...

1) That was BFG

2) I'm pretty sure it was a joke

3) EVGA don't even send free upgrades with their RMA AFAIK, so that point is moot.

Still, I have to agree, with their supposed "no catch" warranty, you'd think they'd cover dust. What's the point in a 10 year warranty if it won't cover a couple of years of dust. It's all fair and good saying "clean it out", but what if a non-techie had bought a pre-built PC and it failed in a couple of years due to dust?
 
alexhull24 said:
I agree somewhat with above, having worked in IT, when complaints happen, the best thing to do as a customer is be polite, or the staffs motivation to help you won't go far. Screaming and moaning from the outset just makes things worse, i've been in the situation before.
Click to expand...


Guardsmon said:
If you are emailing someone to try get something out of it that they don't have to give you, don't swear and insult them. Be polite and point out that you've tried it and it still works so would they please consider taking it back another time...

I know you were frustrated, but emails like that don't help you at all.
Click to expand...

So you are saying I wasnt polite enough ;) fair enough, english not being my first language might be a good excuse :) but thanks for the tip guys, really appreciated!

I just could not resist the guy telling me how dusty the card was....and the fan motor burned...god...talking about huge BS!!!!!
 
sgar said:
So you are saying I wasnt polite enough ;) fair enough, english not being my first language might be a good excuse :) but thanks for the tip guys, really appreciated!

I just could not resist the guy telling me how dusty the card was....and the fan motor burned...god...talking about huge BS!!!!!
Click to expand...

I was just generalising, the comment wasn't aimed specifically at you, but it stands true if you are abusive or rude. Perhaps a politely worded letter to the effect of your feelings might help resolve the situation.

I'll have a look into getting that cover off the GTS cleanly too, thanks for that tip.
 
sgar said:
So you are saying I wasnt polite enough ;) fair enough, english not being my first language might be a good excuse :) but thanks for the tip guys, really appreciated!

I just could not resist the guy telling me how dusty the card was....and the fan motor burned...god...talking about huge BS!!!!!
Click to expand...

Well, because you know you're dealing with someone new, then yeah, be really REALLY nice to start with, it will encourage them to think "why were my colleagues so unhelpful to this poor chap", not "good god what a rude person, not gonna do anything more than the bare minimum for him".

If you still get nowhere, THEN bring out the big guns, some of my superiors at work sweat when they see my address in their inbox :D
 
Oh dear. I think I'm gonna start monitoring and logging my system stats daily so I can disprove any ridiculous claims manufacturers might make about any potential returns.
 
I´ve been in touch with them throughout the week, for those of you interested here are the latest developments :

From: EVGA Support Europe
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:26 PM
To: 'F. Sgar'
Subject: AW: Refused RMA due to dust ( Europe) S/N: 60883143039xx


Kyle,
this issue had been discussed in detail. Joe Darwin received an email from me today regarding this issue.

Fact is, that the board got damaged out of neglect - the neglect to keep the working environment of his PC clean. DUST is one of the biggest enemies to electronics.
And honestly, I've never seen such a ffilthy board before.
It is NOT about cleaning his product, it is about operating his equipment in an atequate environment - which this product was most certainly not

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Von: F. Sgar [mailto:[email protected]]
Gesendet: Montag, 20. April 2009 18:21
An: Peter Tersluisen

Betreff: Re: AW: Refused RMA due to dust ( Europe) S/N: 60883143039xx


Well,
I am sorry, but I still dont understand this whole issue of the dust. You mentioned you cleaned it an realized the fan motor was burned on your last email.
Well, the card I received back from you was:
-Same conditions as when I sent it, same amount of dust on the fan (although you used compressor to clean it)
-The fan still spins fine, just like it had done for the last 2 years. Temperatures of 60C idle are in my opinion very acceptable for a 8800GTX.
I dont doubt your 25+ years in this business, but I think we can both assume that had the fan motor really burned, when I plugged the card back in my PC, I would have smelled it right?
-The card works in 2d only, I can surf the net with it, look at my desktop, nothing more, but the temps are still the same, and the fan spins still, so, I dont think heat has anything to do with it.

I feel however very offended by your judgment about the amount of dust in my PC´s environment, it sounds really bad, I wish I could make you change your mind by showing you a picture of my case, that by the way, has good great airflow, its a full tower case with plenty of room, sitting on a wooden floor, and a large window on the side of the case with lights, all looking nice and tidy.
If thats not enough for your standards then I would be very interested in knowing what more is expected by ordinary Joe!

Best regards

-------------------------------------------------------------------

From: EVGA Support Europe
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:24 AM
To: 'F. Sgar'
Subject: AW: AW: Refused RMA due to dust ( Europe) S/N: 60883143039xx


In an attempt to get the fan bach to move, yes.
The amount of dust in the card was the ultimate cause of the board dying on you.
You need to make sure that you are operating a computer in a suatable environment, and check every once a while that the inside of your case is clean.
The way PC cases are designed, and due to the fans that blow warm airt out of the case, the case as such behaves very similar to a vacuum cleaner. Dust has the tendecy to stick to warm objects and those that may have a static electric charge - usually high voltage components such as those found in your PSU.
There are dust guards available which you can place in front of the vent holes on your PC - they help solve the problem.
Again, we are not asking to take apart a graphics card for cleaning, but we are asking not to neglect it and ensure a reasonably clean operating environment. Dust, aside from water is about the worst enemy of electronics.

Please read our Warranty terms, section 3.3, which says something about NEGLECT. I#ve highlighted that for you:


Peter Tersluisen
Technical Director European Operations

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Von: F. Sgar [mailto:[email protected]]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. April 2009 18:39
An: Peter Tersluisen
Cc: Kyle Sabine
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Refused RMA due to dust ( Europe) S/N: 60883143039xx


Dear Sir

I appreciate you pointing me your section 3.3 of the Warranty once again, and also, to remind me what dust can do to electronic components and how to prevent this from happening.
However, you seem to be proving my point when you say that a customer it´s not expected to take apart a graphic card for cleaning, but then blaming it on the operating environment.
In other words you are blaming me for not keeping my PC clean, and that is for me an unacceptable excuse, and a very RUDE one, making it sound like I have cockroaches in my PC!!!

I still have strong believes that the card was never tested, was simply refused once the dust on the fan was spotted by one of you.
I had a close look at it today, I did not see any signs of the cooler being taking off, although you have mentioned to me that the dust was taken off it with a compressor, that is how you realized the fan motor was burned, but I have already told you that the fan was working when I sent you the card (and its still working now) and the dust was still there when i received the card back. Not to mention the temperatures of the card that have always be good (and still are), in contrary to your overheating statement.

I have been without the use of my main PC for more than 3 weeks, but I was forced at the end to buy another card, an XFX gtx260 to be more exact.
This whole issue has costed me quite some money, but you lost at least one customer (but don´t forget many have read this story on forums).

Best regards

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: EVGA Support Europe
Sent: Wednesday, April 22

Dear Sir,
Sorry if you feel offended by my pointing out the facts.
At the time we had the board in our hands and tested the board, the fan showed no movment. I have no plausible explaination why it would all of the sudden move now.
As stated in my earlier mails: We have never in 3 years of EVGA here in Europe seen cards with dust in that magnitude.

Just one question: If you have a car, I asume you do, don't you take it to service every once a while? What do you think would happen if your car's engine broke - would you get a warranty if you never made an oil change in 2 years? I don't think so!
Did you know that dust not only does damage to mechanical parts, but can contuct electric current? Did you know that you can invoke a dust explosion by a single spark?

************************************************** *


So, that´s it, his word against mine.... I went and got myself a xfx gtx260 at the end. I dont know if its even worth keeping email him anymore, his answer is still the same.... dunno I might try to get hold of a digital camcorder and take a clip of the card with the fan working lol.

Thanks again for reading guys. I am well open to suggestions if you have any!!
 
'invoke a dust explosion' oh hahahahahahahahah oh ****....
laughing.......painsssss.......

That really is priceless, all you can do is cut your losses and learn from your mistake.
When you rma something give it a good clean first.
Tbh though I am really put off by EVGA stubborness here, while I think they are in the right I think it's a bit harsh for them not to be a bit more forgiving. Although your conduct could have contributed to that a lot.

Personally i will now avoid EVGA whereas before i aspired to get an evga card if possible.
I think being in UK BFG are looking 'better' but they clearly have issues too.
 
All i can say fella is should have given a clean before sending it, but thats easy to say in hindsight.

Also your emails did come across as a bit bullish (when i say bullish i mean charging straight in, not as in full of bull poo) so to speak, i know you have said english is not your first language. a lot can be taken from an email and can very easily be taken the wrong way.

On EVGA's part, its bad customer service. Even some of the replies in the emails are a bit off really. Car and service made me chuckle, as did the dust explosion comments lol. :D

Unless your card really was caked in dust and in such a bad state i dont really understand why they have played it out this way with you :eek:


Glad i went BFG for my 295gtx now :)
 
They keep digging themselves a hole and they aren't making themselves look very good!

I would try sending the emails to a couple of news sites, the register/inquirer spring to mind.

I am so glad you brought this to my attention though. There is no way I would wish to deal with a company with such a bad case of customer service.
 
I'd always assumed, like a lot of ppl here, that EVGA were an exceptionally good company who don't mess punters about wrt gear being returned when faulty. I find it a bit far fetched for them to use the excuse of dust causing a failure as a get out to avoid replacing the item, hell most ppl's pcs are are caked with the stuff and I've never heard of a dust related failure from anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter. I've never bought any of their gear, always overpriced imho, and due to this I can't see me buying any in the future.
 
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