Mac vs PC - Serious considerations...

[bloodiedathame]

Went through the same questions as you a while ago.

Adobe CS3 on my dual core, 4 GB 8800GTX PC crashed all the time. Having your own choice of hardware isn't necessarily a good thing, I find the Adobe programs far more stable on OSX.

Gaming, I use consoles. PC gaming is overrated. Constantly upgrading machines costs an absolute fortune.

Speed issue: I use FCP/AE/Logic on my Macbook Pro (upgraded to 500GB HDD and 4GB ram). Only edit in SD for the moment, AE can take a while to render but as expected, Logic is amazing and there is nothing anywhere near as good as it on PC.

I don't find that exports and conversions take that long, I'm a moving image designer so I do quite a lot of this kind of work.

The only place as far as I can see where the PC wins is the gaming... and even there it is massively flawed...

 

[Amp34]

I said the Core OS doesn't crash. I never said that programs won't.

I'd like to see your studio design manager use windows computers for design work and see how different it is. I bet his opinion would be a lot worse of windows than the Mac.

Neither does the Vista core... I bet you also believe that OSX doesn't need an antivirus?

Or do the legal, easier and obviously better way and get a Mac and boot camp it!

And the far more expensive way. Do you not begrudge spending up to £1000 extra for the case and OS? That makes Vista ultimate and a Lian-li case at £500 seem cheap!

 

[Ashley Long]

pcs are so much cheaper to buy and build, i dont see the point in getting a mac when you can build a pc which you will be able to upgrade when new parts come out, run 99% of programs that a mac can, play all the newest games, and have a GUI which works and feels how ever you want it.

there are lots of mods for windows to make it look and feel like a mac if you really want that, you can take the best parts of the mac osx and the best parts of windows and combine them, and have fetures that arnt on ether system.

Gaming, I use consoles. PC gaming is overrated. Constantly upgrading machines costs an absolute fortune.

but spending an extra £1000 for the brand name isnt? if you upgrade your pc once a year and your mac once every 2 or 3 years you will still save money with the pc.

apart from a few programs which are mac only pcs can handle everything a mac can to equal levels, with the before mentioned advantages.

the only major advantage macs have over pcs is for new users who dont know what there doing and dont want to learn more about it because macs do just plug in and work, no need to find the right drivers to run everything and there lack of an upgrade option means when when your in need to and upgrade there is no need to look in to what you should do to get the desired performance upgrade you just buy a mac which is better then your current one and dispose of your current system, creating a throw away economy.



maybe you should consider a linux system?

 

[CK61938]

Gaming, I use consoles. PC gaming is overrated. Constantly upgrading machines costs an absolute fortune.

The only place as far as I can see where the PC wins is the gaming... and even there it is massively flawed...

PC gaming overrated? NEVER!! It's actually now become underrated cos everyone pretty much uses consoles. But for those of us who still love PC games, yeah we dont mind spending a fortune to upgrade our machines to cope with the latest games. I have probably spent well in excess of £2500 in the last 6mths alone upgrading my gaming machine from an AMD dual core, to an Intel Q6600 to a Core i7 920. Ask me if I feel like its a waste of money...and I will definitely say NO WAY! I will continue gaming on a PC for as long as they live. Who's with me?

 

[Logsi]

Neither does the Vista core... I bet you also believe that OSX doesn't need an antivirus?

Yes, i do believe you don't need an anti virus for it! The same way you don't need an Anti Virus for windows if you know what you're doing. Yes, the vista core does crash, it has crashed many a time for me in the time i have used it since December. A proper hard lock which needed a full power off to solve the problem.

And the far more expensive way. Do you not begrudge spending up to £1000 extra for the case and OS? That makes Vista ultimate and a Lian-li case at £500 seem cheap!

Nope, i don't begrudge it. It's false economy buying a windows PC. I spend far little in the grand scheme of things when purchasing a Mac, i bought a new MacBook Pro around December time for £1600 with HE discount, this'll last me 2 years at least before i think about a new model, much like my previous Macbook Pro. I can then sell it for over half the original price at around £1000 and then put that towards a new mac.

Compare this to a windows computer, while the initial price is cheap the cost soon racks up when you factor in upgrade, needed software purchases and appalling resale value.

I loved my PC when i had it, i loved tinkering with it, but now, i just want to work with my computer, not trying to get my computer to work...

 

[Sash]

PC gaming overrated? NEVER!! It's actually now become underrated cos everyone pretty much uses consoles. But for those of us who still love PC games, yeah we dont mind spending a fortune to upgrade our machines to cope with the latest games. I have probably spent well in excess of £2500 in the last 6mths alone upgrading my gaming machine from an AMD dual core, to an Intel Q6600 to a Core i7 920. Ask me if I feel like its a waste of money...and I will definitely say NO WAY! I will continue gaming on a PC for as long as they live. Who's with me?

I end up paying more for a PC now AND save money in the games AND have access to hundreds of free mods for games I play AND use inbuilt consoles for cheats when the games I play get boring AND free online gaming for the games I play AND I can be on msn while gaming. Money well spent imo (I also have all consoles, which I hardly touch now since I got a gaming machine)

Inb4 people saying they would rather sit on the couch to game rather than huddle over the desk. I have my PC hooked up to my TV and I sit on my bed to use it, long USB cable or wireless keyboard and mouse a few tweaks to the initial Windows OS for bigger fonts and there we go.

 

[neil_g]

Yes, i do believe you don't need an anti virus for it! The same way you don't need an Anti Virus for windows if you know what you're doing. Yes, the vista core does crash, it has crashed many a time for me in the time i have used it since December. A proper hard lock which needed a full power off to solve the problem.

yup, had some of those in the 40 or so macs we have here. had none to date since putting my work laptop on vista x64.

what do i win?

 

[Sash]

yup, had some of those in the 40 or so macs we have here. had none to date since putting my work laptop on vista x64.

what do i win?

Cookies or internetz you can only pick one.

 

[neil_g]

mmm cookies!

 

[Logsi]

What happened? What were you doing at the time?

Tiger? Leopard?

 

[Amp34]

Yes, i do believe you don't need an anti virus for it! The same way you don't need an Anti Virus for windows if you know what you're doing. Yes, the vista core does crash, it has crashed many a time for me in the time i have used it since December. A proper hard lock which needed a full power off to solve the problem.

Ok that's fine, but I know a lot of mac users that think they are immune to viruses. And that's intersting, I have two machines running vista (one since Beta over two years ago and the other over a year old) and neither have ever had a core crash. I have seen several macs crash. Stability is not an issue with the current set of Windows and Mac OS's IMO and so as an argument for either is pointless now.

Nope, i don't begrudge it. It's false economy buying a windows PC. I spend far little in the grand scheme of things when purchasing a Mac, i bought a new MacBook Pro around December time for £1600 with HE discount, this'll last me 2 years at least before i think about a new model, much like my previous Macbook Pro. I can then sell it for over half the original price at around £1000 and then put that towards a new mac.

Compare this to a windows computer, while the initial price is cheap the cost soon racks up when you factor in upgrade, needed software purchases and appalling resale value.

I loved my PC when i had it, i loved tinkering with it, but now, i just want to work with my computer, not trying to get my computer to work...

I bought a new Vista laptop about a year ago (with a much faster system than the comparative macbook (pro)) for £600 and will hang on to it for at least another year as it has no speed issues, then probably sell it for £300-400 and buy another laptop, just like you.

Upgrade? that doesn't count as we are talking about the base system, which needs as much upgrading as a macbook (which you can argue will also be upgraded). Needed software? Well the same again, you need to buy software for macs too, last time I looked CS4 didn't come free with a mac and doesn't cost any more for the PC version... Appalling resale value? Admittedly it won't fetch as much as a macbook, but then I didn't spend anywhere near as much to begin with so I wouldn't expect it to.

To me your post just smacks as a list of excuses for spending far more on a machine than you really should, none of the arguments make any sense. If you had said I bought a mac because I liked the way it looked and liked OSX more or wanted it to look cool and didn't care about the price then I would have said fair enough, your choice...

 

[hughythomas]

Logsi, how crucial to your time on the computer is music production? You said in original post you use Logic - which version? 7? 8? Express? Pro?

In my opinion, a lot of people slate macs without ever laying a finger on them. I have heard many of my mates who used to **** macs but after an hour or so in the studio with my mac pro workstation they soon change their tune....then months later I find they all have macbooks!!!

Anyhow, I must stress at this point that I love PCs. Mainly because I am a geek and I love watercooling. Have built loads of different PCs over the years and enjoy overclocking. However, I would NEVER trust anything serious under Windows. Irrespective of which version. (bring on the flame!)

For me, Mac OS X is just stable, quick and easy to use. I recently moved to Vista 64 on my main gaming rig (E8400 4.4Ghz, Samsung Spinpoint F1, 4870X2 etc) and it still baffles me how long it takes to boot. My 2.66Ghz Mac Pro (2006) boots in 15 seconds. My PC...40. Not only this but I work as a music producer/engineer and use a host of different DAWs including Tools, Sonar, Cubase 5 and Logic. Now, under the mac environment they NEVER crash. I have had numerous issues with Cubase for example on windows which is simply unacceptable. Like another poster pointed out earlier, time is money.

Anyhow, my advice to you mate is if you need to rely on your machine its a no brainer. Look at all the pros in graphic, production, etc etc all use macs. Simple as. Also, why not just use bootcamp for gaming? The new macs are shipping with the 4 series Radeons right? I have a LAN gaming rig on my old E6600 and a 512MB 4850 - its steller!! Runs all the games at max settings 1680x1050. If you were to buy a mac pro (gulp) you could always upgrade the graphics card/cpu/ram at a later date. My mac pro originally shipped with a Radeon X1900XT which I replaced with a 8800GT later on. Great card! I also plan to swap my 2.66 for a 3.0Ghz Xeon when the money permits. Of course, this is just my personal opinion (like everyone else) so wish you the best of luck with your decision which is ultimately down to you!



Just my two pennies worth!

 

[CK61938]

For me, Mac OS X is just stable, quick and easy to use. I recently moved to Vista 64 on my main gaming rig (E8400 4.4Ghz, Samsung Spinpoint F1, 4870X2 etc) and it still baffles me how long it takes to boot. My 2.66Ghz Mac Pro (2006) boots in 15 seconds. My PC...40.

Your PC boots up in 40 secs? strange...cos mine boots up in about the same time as your Mac Pro... and I am running a Core i7 920 OC'd to 4.0GHz with 6GB DDR3 RAM, 2x 500GB HDD (OS is on the Samsung Spinpoint) and XFX 4870 X2...so does it still baffle you how mine can boot up in the same time as your Mac?

Even my other machine which has a Q6600 @ 3.57GHz can boot up in about 20secs. I think you will find its not hard to make a PC boot up really quickly...one just has to know how.

 

[Logsi]

Ok that's fine, but I know a lot of mac users that think they are immune to viruses. And that's intersting, I have two machines running vista (one since Beta over two years ago and the other over a year old) and neither have ever had a core crash. I have seen several macs crash. Stability is not an issue with the current set of Windows and Mac OS's IMO and so as an argument for either is pointless now.

I have had Vista Home Premium boot camped on my MacBook Pro since december. It has crashed multiple times without warning. I'm not slating Vista as personally i thought it was rather nice and didn't see why it got such a bad press.

I am looking forward to 7 when it's released. Got the beta on my old MacBook Pro at the moment for testing.

In my opinion stability is still very much the forefront between the differing OS's. From prior experience i have never had to reformat my Macintosh because of software issues whereas i have had to many a time with my windows computers. I understand that we should leave this argument alone though as we could go on all day about this crashed and that crashed but this didnt crash blah blah blah etc...

I bought a new Vista laptop about a year ago (with a much faster system than the comparative macbook (pro)) for £600 and will hang on to it for at least another year as it has no speed issues, then probably sell it for £300-400 and buy another laptop, just like you.

As i have said, they are expensive but not over priced. If you factor in all the parts , not just main specs, and grade of the parts then they'll soon balance out.

Upgrade? that doesn't count as we are talking about the base system, which needs as much upgrading as a macbook (which you can argue will also be upgraded).

This point of mine was referring to my need to always upgrade and get the best hardware. This isn't applicable to everyone though i know.

Needed software? Well the same again, you need to buy software for macs too, last time I looked CS4 didn't come free with a mac and doesn't cost any more for the PC version... Appalling resale value? Admittedly it won't fetch as much as a macbook, but then I didn't spend anywhere near as much to begin with so I wouldn't expect it to.

The needed software was referring to Anti virus software. Also what bundled software do you get with a windows PC that compares to iLife'09?

To me your post just smacks as a list of excuses for spending far more on a machine than you really should, none of the arguments make any sense. If you had said I bought a mac because I liked the way it looked and liked OSX more or wanted it to look cool and didn't care about the price then I would have said fair enough, your choice...

I don't think i have made any excuses for purchasing an expensive computer?

I like OS X more and i like the whole package a lot more than windows. The portability and build of my Unibody MacBook Pro surpasses any equivalent dell. I like the fact my productivity is higher on a Mac, i have done things on a Mac that i have never done in my 10+ years on windows. I like being able to turn the computer on and it's as good and fast as the day i first got it. No maintenance is required wasting time. If you want more reasons shall i go on?

I do like this debate though!

 

[Logsi]

Logsi, how crucial to your time on the computer is music production? You said in original post you use Logic - which version? 7? 8? Express? Pro?

The latest one! Logic Studio. Has Pro 8 in it.

Got the full version for an awesome sum of £118 with HE discount! That's over £200 off! It's worth buying it for all the manuals alone!

It's nice to have your input though with past experiences of the different DAWs. Using windows PC's at the University studios can get very tedious when recording bands and things go wrong. It's not a case of, "It's easy to fix, take two" etc... it's always the case of "Hmmmm why is that happening? Dunno?!??!"

 

[Amp34]

I have had Vista Home Premium boot camped on my MacBook Pro since december. It has crashed multiple times without warning. I'm not slating Vista as personally i thought it was rather nice and didn't see why it got such a bad press.

I am looking forward to 7 when it's released. Got the beta on my old MacBook Pro at the moment for testing.

In my opinion stability is still very much the forefront between the differing OS's. From prior experience i have never had to reformat my Macintosh because of software issues whereas i have had to many a time with my windows computers. I understand that we should leave this argument alone though as we could go on all day about this crashed and that crashed but this didnt crash blah blah blah etc...

I also quite like Vista, and can't see where the bad press came from.

That may have been true in the past (ME, god that was awful) but Microsoft got their finger out and made something pretty stable, in the form of XP, and since then went on to make Vista, which has completely turned Microsoft around in that respect. Gone are the days of crashing, of reinstalling every 6 months to keep it fast (Haven't reinstalled Vista since going from RC2 to the full release over 2 years ago). OS stability is comparable over both systems (Vista and OSX) IMO. But yeah, lets leave it alone.

As i have said, they are expensive but not over priced. If you factor in all the parts , not just main specs, and grade of the parts then they'll soon balance out.

I assume you mean things like quality of RAM, keyboard and mouse etc? In that case then yes pre built PC from the likes of the purple place are god awful and I wouldn't buy from them at all. But a home built PC doesn't have that problem, you can pick from the best parts available (in fact I have, with this very PC I am typing on) and it will still work out siginficantly cheaper.

This point of mine was referring to my need to always upgrade and get the best hardware. This isn't applicable to everyone though i know.

For your PC? I see that there, but what is to stop you from upgrading your mac? You can upgrade almosst everything on it, as long as they are mac compatable parts can you not? So in that way it's another argument that's really even for both systems. It used to be different maybe, but since both systems use the same parts it has been removed.

The needed software was referring to Anti virus software. Also what bundled software do you get with a windows PC that compares to iLife'09?

But as I stated and you agreed AV software should technically be on both machines or neither (yes Windows is more succeptable to viruses, well in reality due to the shear fact there are far more viruses written for it due to it's popularity over mac) and the most important part is the user.

I must admit I have never heard of iLife, but looking at it (and at the risk of being shouted down for the quality of the UI etc) it looks much the same as Windows Movie Maker and windows live photo gallery? Having said that there is no comparable bundled software for the last two features, although free alternatives are available. Having said that I'm sure there are programs on Vista that aren't available on OSX for free so swings and roundabouts really.

I don't think i have made any excuses for purchasing an expensive computer?

I like OS X more and i like the whole package a lot more than windows. The portability and build of my Unibody MacBook Pro surpasses any equivalent dell. I like the fact my productivity is higher on a Mac, i have done things on a Mac that i have never done in my 10+ years on windows. I like being able to turn the computer on and it's as good and fast as the day i first got it. No maintenance is required wasting time. If you want more reasons shall i go on?

I do like this debate though!

Ok I am fine with most of that, that's a personal choice (mine is that I don't like the white or silver styling on the macbooks). I disagree with your later points though (or at least want to point out that is the same on Vista). As I already stated my vista install runs as fresh now as it did when I installed it. It starts up instantly (sleep mode) and I know where everything is.

I did contemplate (hard) about getting a macbook when I got my laptop, but I couldn't justify the premium I would have had to pay (on top of the premium for the black one) and the cost of upgrading things like the HDD (7200RPM), DVD drive and RAM of a brand new machine to get what I wanted, so I went with a Dell XPS instead.

 

[selven]

PC with osx, best of both worlds.

 

[Logsi]

Good post! I agree with a lot of your points! I won't dissect and carry on though!

I hope you bite the bullet and give a Mac laptop another go sometime. I was once a hardcore windows fanboy and i have been swayed.

It's just if you think OS X and the build quality is worth the premium!

P.S. The thing stopping me from upgrading my Mac is 1. It's already top of the range and 2. I don't need to...(yet...anyway!)

 

[Amp34]

Good post! I agree with a lot of your points! I won't dissect and carry on though!

I hope you bite the bullet and give a Mac laptop another go sometime. I was once a hardcore windows fanboy and i have been swayed.

It's just if you think OS X and the build quality is worth the premium!

P.S. The thing stopping me from upgrading my Mac is 1. It's already top of the range and 2. I don't need to...(yet...anyway!)

Thanks, we both have valid points, and it's nice ot have a debate on here that doesn't descend into a mindless slagging match.

At the moment I am planning on trying OSX on my PC to see how I get on but when I get a proper job (Uni student) I will again seriously consider a mac, when I can afford to upgrade the pesky 5400rpm drive.

 

[martin5454]

Not really related but I have looked at a video of Linux on youtube and it looked pretty nice. Anyone use it and can tell me if its worth moving to?