Almunia In Goal For England ?

placeholder · 3 May 2009 at 22:04

NokkonWud said:
I see no problem with it. I think if there's a chance to get better players playing then take it.

But he isnt English!

Can you see a scenario where the best young players from fairly poor countries will move to England and not represent their country incase they stay long enough to qualify for England (just an example).

Say Drogba for example, if he came here as youngster and was called up by the Ivory Coast but said "no" so he could apply for an English passport and try his luck with England?

The twins at United are a good example if they werent Brazilian. Both in the first team squad at 18. If they were from a lesser country i could see it happening.

It sounds far fetched but if you think it through its quite a big can of worms IMO.

ninja_turtle · 3 May 2009 at 22:13

MadMan-JaMeS said:
I personally think it might be a good idea to let him have a go.

He is a pretty good shot stopper, and with calamity james getting old, i don't see foster, green, robinson, and carson being ample replacments.

Your thoughts ?

Are you forgetting? Cudicini is able to play for england. He's been here twice as long as Almunia. Plus Cudicini is the best GK in the premiership.

Gustov · 3 May 2009 at 22:19

ninja_turtle said:
Plus Cudicini is the best GK in the premiership.

lolz

semi-pro waster · 3 May 2009 at 22:34

Deadly Ferret said:
That's bleeped up. If there was such a thing as a British football team then fine, let him play for that, but why should British citizenship allow him to play for the English team?!

Presumably with a British passport he'd also have the choice of playing for Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales if he so chose. Would that bother you less?

placeholder said:
But he isnt English!

Can you see a scenario where the best young players from fairly poor countries will move to England and not represent their country incase they stay long enough to qualify for England (just an example).

Say Drogba for example, if he came here as youngster and was called up by the Ivory Coast but said "no" so he could apply for an English passport and try his luck with England?

The twins at United are a good example if they werent Brazilian. Both in the first team squad at 18. If they were from a lesser country i could see it happening.

It sounds far fetched but if you think it through its quite a big can of worms IMO.

What would be the problem with that? If for instance the players in question have adopted this country as theirs, they aren't particularly bothered about the country they were born in and consider themselves to be primarily British then why would you have an issue with that?

placeholder · 3 May 2009 at 22:39

semi-pro waster said:
Presumably with a British passport he'd also have the choice of playing for Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales if he so chose. Would that bother you less?

What would be the problem with that? If for instance the players in question have adopted this country as theirs, they aren't particularly bothered about the country they were born in and consider themselves to be primarily British then why would you have an issue with that?

Because it would be a flag of convenience. Do you for one split second think almunia has a deep love for roast beef and yorkshire pudding? Has he embraced the culture with a passion or has he just thought "hey, i could play in a world cup if i play my cards right".

You are going to end up with an extended club situation at international level. The best leagues in the world already attract the best youngsters. They will wait, pick up their passports and sign on for the country.

ninja_turtle · 3 May 2009 at 22:47

placeholder said:
Because it would be a flag of convenience. Do you for one split second think almunia has a deep love for roast beef and yorkshire pudding? Has he embraced the culture with a passion or has he just thought "hey, i could play in a world cup if i play my cards right".

Exactly. Cudicini has been here for over 10 years. This is his home. He is a British Citizen. End of. Cudicini steps up when James retires.

placeholder · 3 May 2009 at 22:51

ninja_turtle said:
Exactly. Cudicini has been here for over 10 years. This is his home. He is a British Citizen. End of. Cudicini steps up when James retires.

What??? WUM by any chance???

ninja_turtle · 3 May 2009 at 23:10

placeholder said:
What??? WUM by any chance???

I'm serious. Consistantly a top keeper for Chelsea. I am a blues fan and I personally cannot say Cech or Cudicini is better. They are both world class and we were fortunate to have both.

While on this topic I also have mention that although I believe Harry Houdini to be second only to Fergie in Premiership managers, wtf is he doing playing that idiot Gomes?

placeholder · 3 May 2009 at 23:50

ninja_turtle said:
I'm serious. Consistantly a top keeper for Chelsea. I am a blues fan and I personally cannot say Cech or Cudicini is better. They are both world class and we were fortunate to have both.

While on this topic I also have mention that although I believe Harry Houdini to be second only to Fergie in Premiership managers, wtf is he doing playing that idiot Gomes?

Thats up to Harry.

I wasnt disputing Cudicini as a goalkeeper but it doesnt make him any more English.

Potentially, if none of them had been or chosen to be capped you would be happy to see a situation in 5 years time where the England team had....

Rafael at RB
Fabio at LB
Possebon in CM
Marcheda up front.

These are just Man Utd players i have picked at random, add in Wengers kids and Rafas youngsters. Could you really support a team like that under the banner of "England"? Again, i know it seems far fetched but the principle stands up.

ninja_turtle · 4 May 2009 at 02:09

no because I don't like any of them.

placeholder · 4 May 2009 at 02:56

ninja_turtle said:
no because I don't like any of them.

You are a serious ****. Enjoy your stay, it wont be long.

cheets64 · 4 May 2009 at 03:39

Would rather have James least you can call him a **** and have a talk about his efforts at goal keeping.

Stewy · 4 May 2009 at 03:58

I don't understand this situation, he is no better than english keepers like Foster or James?

Greenlizard0 · 4 May 2009 at 06:30

placeholder said:
Because it would be a flag of convenience. Do you for one split second think almunia has a deep love for roast beef and yorkshire pudding? Has he embraced the culture with a passion or has he just thought "hey, i could play in a world cup if i play my cards right".

Irrespective of the fact it doesn't matter, do you think the rest of the English squad do? I doubt it very much. Most of them embody the chav-ish decline.

Almunia is somebody who appears pretty sound on interview, and hasn't a history of getting into the newspapers for the wrong reasons. He also has Champion's League experience, something almost necessary in order to play at international level teams of the better nations.

placeholder said:
You are going to end up with an extended club situation at international level. The best leagues in the world already attract the best youngsters. They will wait, pick up their passports and sign on for the country.

Almunia's 31 now and a keeper, I do not see e.g. Arteta at 26 has ever and will ever consider playing for England.

Adding all this to the debate I still maintain surprise that his door isn't being beaten down. Other English keepers for the last two seasons years haven't been as good as Almunia. Sure they have good and bad games, but I've always thought as the current no. 1 James is an utter liability. Our first against Pompey this weekend is yet another example of him messing up.

As said above, if he doesn't, then fantastic. He gets a rest while others are on the pitch. It's a slightly pessimistic reason why I like players who don't qualify for international tournaments. Adebayor having no ACoN was a blessing as it happens, and Hleb always gets a summer off.

semi-pro waster · 4 May 2009 at 08:30

placeholder said:
Because it would be a flag of convenience. Do you for one split second think almunia has a deep love for roast beef and yorkshire pudding? Has he embraced the culture with a passion or has he just thought "hey, i could play in a world cup if i play my cards right".

You are going to end up with an extended club situation at international level. The best leagues in the world already attract the best youngsters. They will wait, pick up their passports and sign on for the country.

I don't know about Mr Almunia specifically although given the calls for an England cap don't seem to come from him I'd doubt he feels all that strongly on the issue, I'm asking in more general terms about whether you think nationality is an absolute or if it can ever change. Taking the attachment you seem to feel for England into consideration I'm not sure why you think many other people would simply disown their country in return for the chance of possibly playing for a more successful national side i.e. if you've got this unswerving loyalty then why do you think other people will have so little? I don't doubt that some people could and would choose to play for another national team but I'm not sure it is likely to be a big issue in numbers terms.

I don't embrace everything about Scottish culture e.g. I don't have a great love for bagpipes and deep fried Mars Bars, does that mean I'm not Scottish? I do believe it is possible to adopt another nationality beyond that of the one you were born with.

placeholder · 4 May 2009 at 14:15

semi-pro waster said:
I don't know about Mr Almunia specifically although given the calls for an England cap don't seem to come from him I'd doubt he feels all that strongly on the issue, I'm asking in more general terms about whether you think nationality is an absolute or if it can ever change. Taking the attachment you seem to feel for England into consideration I'm not sure why you think many other people would simply disown their country in return for the chance of possibly playing for a more successful national side i.e. if you've got this unswerving loyalty then why do you think other people will have so little? I don't doubt that some people could and would choose to play for another national team but I'm not sure it is likely to be a big issue in numbers terms.

I don't embrace everything about Scottish culture e.g. I don't have a great love for bagpipes and deep fried Mars Bars, does that mean I'm not Scottish? I do believe it is possible to adopt another nationality beyond that of the one you were born with.

My point is you are Scottish regardless of Mars bars and bagpipes. A footballer from another country playing in Scotland for a period of time is in no way, shape or form Scottish. He should not be able to change nationalities based on the chance to play for a particular national team.

In Almunias case the people who want it are only looking at the short-term need for a goalkeeper not the bigger implications. Every one who supports him says things like "he's better than James" or "he's better than anything else we have". Surely that isnt a reason?

I have no issue with people changing nationalities but surely it has to be for the right reasons? If a player changes nationality and subsequently goes on to play for his new country then thats ok but he shouldnt do it JUST to play for that country.

There are lots of gray areas, but its quite clear cut in my eyes.

ninja_turtle · 4 May 2009 at 14:51

StewartMG said:
I don't understand this situation, he is no better than english keepers like Foster or James?

Nail on the head. James is already in goal for England. Along with Cech, Given, Buffon and Cudicini he is the best in the world. So what is the problem here?

semi-pro waster · 5 May 2009 at 00:20

placeholder said:
Snipped for space...I have no issue with people changing nationalities but surely it has to be for the right reasons? If a player changes nationality and subsequently goes on to play for his new country then thats ok but he shouldnt do it JUST to play for that country.

There are lots of gray areas, but its quite clear cut in my eyes.

I think we aren't that far away from agreeing really, if someone wants to adopt a new country as theirs and they want what is best for it i.e. they feel part of it and embrace it (what you might describe as the right reasons) then I don't see the issue with them going on to represent their new country. If they are only doing it to play for a different country or to gain some kind of advantage without any consideration or feelings towards the country other than what they can take from it then I'm less happy with that and can see the issue.

aslco · 5 May 2009 at 01:00

semi-pro waster said:
I think we aren't that far away from agreeing really, if someone wants to adopt a new country as theirs and they want what is best for it i.e. they feel part of it and embrace it (what you might describe as the right reasons) then I don't see the issue with them going on to represent their new country. If they are only doing it to play for a different country or to gain some kind of advantage without any consideration or feelings towards the country other than what they can take from it then I'm less happy with that and can see the issue.

Yep. From a recent interview with florent malouda i can tell he loves England and how his family basically consider themselves English now. However, not many footballers fall in love with the country as much as he has. Also he has already represented France and still has many critics depsite his recent form.

a1ex2001 · 5 May 2009 at 16:27

Greenlizard0 said:
I do not see e.g. Arteta at 26 has ever and will ever consider playing for England.

Arteta, has not rules the possibility out and has even hinted that he might. (telegraph ages ago).

Aluminia I don't think is sufficiently better than what we have to make it work considering, he's good but he's not massively better than the English options so not worth opening this can of worms for.