BARCELONA Grand Prix 2009 - Race 5/17

AcidHell2 said:
So how is that the teams fault and how is that proof teh team fixed it?
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As I said there was no reason not to follow suit during the 1st stop - after that I agree Barrichello just didnt do enough to make up that extra 1 stop - but if they had just moved him to 2 stops (so about 5 laps per stop more) he may not have had to put the same amount of effort, especially with track position knowing Button was physically behind him...

If I was Rubens Ill be asking the question why he wasnt offered the same choice...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
As I said there was no reason not to follow suit during the 1st stop - after that I agree Barrichello just didnt do enough to make up that extra 1 stop - but if they had just moved him to 2 stops (so about 5 laps per stop more) he may not have had to put the same amount of effort, especially with track position knowing Button was physically behind him...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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They thought the 3 stop was faster, they only changed Button to a 2 stopper because if they had kept him on a 3 stopper he would have come out right behind Rosberg(?) after his first stop and they didn't want to get held up, simple fact is Rubens didn't deliver the lap times.
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
They thought the 3 stop was faster, they only changed Button to a 2 stopper because if they had kept him on a 3 stopper he would have come out right behind Rosberg(?) and they didn't want to get held up, simple fact is Rubens didn't deliver the lap times.
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I listened to the same interview - for some reason, I think thats a polite PR polish on what transpired. No proof for it at all, just dont think Button had to put the same consistent effort Rubens had to do in a car that Rubens seemed to have locked in throughout the race weekend...

Happy for the Button win, just not how Rubens got 2nd...

AcidHell2 said:
Apart from three stops is faster on paper due to the tyre options.
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Ahh I didnt know that - mind providing a link and who else was on the same strategy today?

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
ps3ud0 said:
I listened to the same interview - for some reason, I think thats a polite PR polish on what transpired. No proof for it at all, just dont think Button had to put the same consistent effort Rubens had to do in a car that Rubens seemed to have locked in throughout the race weekend...
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Barichello simply did not put in the expected times between pitstops 2+3. Simple as that. if he had put the same times in as between his earlier pitstop. he would have won and won comfortably.
 
AcidHell2 said:
So is lewis. He's getting that car consistently much higher than it should be.
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So why is he bitching about it and getting snippy with anyone that interviews him? The car obviously isn't horrendous, per se, it just isn't up to winning speed yet. The way Hamilton talks, you'd think it was a reincarnation of the Andrea Moda....Mark Huges in the Times remarked on the contrast between Button and Hamilton - Button never really bitched about his team in the press when the car was bad, never was anything less than polite with the press, Hamilton is getting surly, uncooperative and is moaning about the lack of pace he's getting from any new parts on the car. I've been saying this year that Hamilton is doing a fantastic job in that car, and I had a lot of sympathy for his plight. That sympathy is draining away quickly.

Another snooze-fest in Barcelona then. The one bit of real excitement was seeing whether or not Massa's Ferrari would make it over the line. Was it just a tactical ****-up from Ferrari or has the Random Intertechnique Fuel Rig Failure Of Ultimate Justice™ kicked in again? Either way, Massa did do a pretty good job of keeping Vettel behind him all the way until having to let him by. Great job by Webber - he could have got 2nd if that outlap mid-race had worked out better. Superb job by both Brawns, if they can keep ahead of the braying pack then this really could finally be Jenson's year - and when was the last time British drivers won the title two years running? Hint - it was before the '70s.
 
ps3ud0 said:
As I said I heard what he said - just dont believe it as I dont think other teams thought the same...

Why Im wondering - who actually did do a 3stop?

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Don't think anyone did. But why does that matter? that was their original plan. You are reading stuffy which just isn't there.

A) it was there original plan
B) if he put in the times he should have been doing, he would have won.


Absolutely stupid in those circumstances to think it is anything other than bad luck. New tyres probably weren't as good as eh previous ones.
 
ps3ud0 said:
As I said I heard what he said - just dont believe it as I dont think other teams thought the same...

Why Im wondering - who actually did do a 3stop?

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Why change his stratagy when he was in prime position for the win until his 3rd stint, in which on the same fuel and fresher tires than Button, Barrichello was slow, simple as that.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Don't think anyone did. But why does that matter? that was their original plan. You are reading stuffy which just isn't there.

A) it was there original plan
B) if he put in the times he should have been doing, he would have won.


Absolutely stupid in those circumstances to think it is anything other than bad luck. New tyres probably weren't as good as eh previous ones.
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Sorry Im not trying to be pendatic, just reading between the lines regards what explanations have been put. If it was the best strategy on paper why didnt anyone else do it?

Just seem so many holes in what Brawn said and unfortunately Rubens not doing what he needed to do is supposedly the only reason why he didnt get the win. I think the task he was given was far far harder than they originally planned especially after the SC negated his speed advantage.

Its well known if you pit one more time than anyone else you need to be out of the front and pulling away - the SC before the 1st stop stopped that and so it was the relatively obvious choice to move to 2 stops when he pitted - it was to Buttons engineers...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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AcidHell2 said:
who doesn't? Button made it very clear what he felt of the car for the last few years.
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But he wasn't a snappy little bitch about it, he was honest and open. Hamilton is going better than Button has done over the previous two seasons and his demeanor isn't the best at this stage.
 
AcidHell2 said:
who doesn't? Button made it very clear what he felt of the car for the last few years.
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Button never got surly with the press though. And he was at least polite about the team, even when declaring the car to be a complete dog (which it plainly was). The McLaren isn't great by any stretch, but it certainly isn't as bad as Hamilton's whining is making it out to be. If it was that bad, then even he - The Great And Glorious Messiah™ - wouldn't have scored any points with it this year.
 
ps3ud0 said:
Sorry Im not trying to be pendatic, just reading between the lines regards what explanations have been put. If it was the best strategy on paper why didnt anyone else do it?

Just seem so many holes in what Brawn said and unfortunately Rubens not doing what he needed to do is supposedly the only reason why he didnt get the win. I think the task he was given was far far harder than they originally planned especially after the SC negated his speed advantage.

Its well known if you pit one more time than anyone else you need to be out of the front and pulling away - the SC before the 1st stop stopped that and so it was the relatively obvious choice to move to 2 stops...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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What holes? what was it the hards two seconds a lap slower?

Um he was out front and pulling away nicely, what was it 0.7seconds a lap.

JRS said:
Button never got surly with the press though. And he was at least polite about the team, even when declaring the car to be a complete dog (which it plainly was). The McLaren isn't great by any stretch, but it certainly isn't as bad as Hamilton's whining is making it out to be. If it was that bad, then even he - The Great And Glorious Messiah™ - wouldn't have scored any points with it this year.
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he's already said he is not enjoying the season and especially the media.
and I think it is a very bad car, look at how well his team mate is doing.
 
Interesting point on the forum that they need to be able to drain 1kg of fuel out of Massas car for testing (guess to make sure it's not dodgy) presume they've got problems if there isn't that much sloshing about in the bottom!
 
ps3ud0 said:
Sorry Im not trying to be pendatic, just reading between the lines regards what explanations have been put. If it was the best strategy on paper why didnt anyone else do it?

Just seem so many holes in what Brawn said and unfortunately Rubens not doing what he needed to do is supposedly the only reason why he didnt get the win. I think the task he was given was far far harder than they originally planned especially after the SC negated his speed advantage.

Its well known if you pit one more time than anyone else you need to be out of the front and pulling away - the SC before the 1st stop stopped that and so it was the relatively obvious choice to move to 2 stops when he pitted - it was to Buttons engineers...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Brawn seemed pretty critical of Ruben's laptimes, I'm sure if it was a team order he would have said "we got the wrong strategy" rather than say "He was disappointing and not quick enough".
 
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