Toyota will quit F1, Ferrari may quit F1 . . .

AcidHell2 said:
and would mean teams couldn't introduce new body parts at the spare of the moment as the cars would have to be fitted and tested. Which is not a good idea.
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BrawnGP did not test during the winter when ALL other teams did
but they came out and kicked A**

If Ferrari can't produce a competitive car for £100m, no wonder they're worried about a £40m cap.

EDIT= I tell you what will happen MM will say OK guys 100mil a year and they will say OK
then he will bring it down by 10mil every year till its gets to 50mil
 
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deuse said:
BrawnGP did not test during the winter when ALL other teams did
but they came out and kicked A**

If Ferrari can't produce a competitive car for £100m, no wonder they're worried about a £40m cap.

EDIT= I tell you what will happen MM will say OK guys 100mil a year and they will say OK
then he will bring it down by 10mil every year till its gets to 50mil
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Honda were developing the car for a year before it even see the track.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Just seen that the 40mill does not cover engine.

so does that mean Ferrari could spend 200mill developing a 25k rpm engine.
These rules have so many holes in it is stupid.
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The cap covers most aspects of expenditure,
but areas exempted include marketing and hospitality budgets,
driver salaries and engine costs for 2010 only.

Those teams who accept the cap will be allowed some technical freedom, such as running engines with no rev limit.
And so on
 
If Toyota and Ferrari pull out, who will provide engines to Williams or Torro Rosso? If Renault pull out then who will provide for Red Bull? If McLaren pull out then who would provide for Force India?
If a manufacturer team pulls out then it also has a big impact on the team they supply engines to. (I think each manufacturer right now supplies engines to one other team and in the case of McLaren, 2 other teams)

Are Brawn being allowed to use McLaren engines next season too? Or was the agreement that they could use the engines for this year only since a team was only supposed to be allowed to provide engines to one other team
 
AcidHell2 said:
and would mean teams couldn't introduce new body parts at the spare of the moment as the cars would have to be fitted and tested. Which is not a good idea.
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Why not? when they 'design' the new body parts, they simply have an aero consideration as they no doubt do today, and I'm sure the aero-dynamisists will help design the shape to ensure it conforms..

But, fundamentally if they have hit the aero target in the oriignal design why are they changing body parts? or is this things like suspension arms etc we are on about?
 
Smit said:
If Toyota and Ferrari pull out, who will provide engines to Williams or Torro Rosso? If Renault pull out then who will provide for Red Bull? If McLaren pull out then who would provide for Force India?
If a manufacturer team pulls out then it also has a big impact on the team they supply engines to. (I think each manufacturer right now supplies engines to one other team and in the case of McLaren, 2 other teams)

Are Brawn being allowed to use McLaren engines next season too? Or was the agreement that they could use the engines for this year only since a team was only supposed to be allowed to provide engines to one other team
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As I have said Cosworth can do engines for F1.
it may have something to do with Cosworth signing a contract with the FIA to supply Formula 1 engines from 2010.

I LOVED my sierra cosworth.
 
deuse said:
BrawnGP did not test during the winter when ALL other teams did
but they came out and kicked A**

If Ferrari can't produce a competitive car for £100m, no wonder they're worried about a £40m cap.

EDIT= I tell you what will happen MM will say OK guys 100mil a year and they will say OK
then he will bring it down by 10mil every year till its gets to 50mil
Click to expand...
This isn't true. Ross Brawn when interviewed a few weeks ago was very honest about the fact that they had spent a lot of time last year developing this years car, whereas other teams like Ferrari and McLaren were focussed on winning the Drivers championship. He said they would catch up, and as you can see with Ferrari it is happening.

There really is a lot of nonsense talked about Ferrari in this thread. It's an unfortunate trait some people have to enjoy knocking those that have been so successful for so long.
 
CS||nuTs said:
Honda were developing the car for a year before it even see the track.
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Do we actually know when it was first built though? No

Surely it was more time (admittedly with 700 people at the time this expenditure would be large ) and effort rather than actual manufacturiing , as it was never run until this winter

Either way - next year's car shouldnt cost anywhere near as much as it will just be adapted from this year's car for the most part, the technical rules arent changing as drastically from 09-10 as they did from 08-09

Smit said:
If Toyota and Ferrari pull out, who will provide engines to Williams or Torro Rosso? If Renault pull out then who will provide for Red Bull? If McLaren pull out then who would provide for Force India?
If a manufacturer team pulls out then it also has a big impact on the team they supply engines to. (I think each manufacturer right now supplies engines to one other team and in the case of McLaren, 2 other teams)

Are Brawn being allowed to use McLaren engines next season too? Or was the agreement that they could use the engines for this year only since a team was only supposed to be allowed to provide engines to one other team
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Remember its one of the few - but McLaren and Mercedes are two seperate entities, even if they have been partners for a very long time. Mercedes are just a high profile supplier, they could (and probably would ) go anywhere in the pitlane to earn the money /prestige (of the leading engine manufacturers)

Renault and Ferrari are manufacturer thru and thru though which makes it a very viable question for those teams supplied by these two companies

Spie said:
This isn't true. Ross Brawn when interviewed a few weeks ago was very honest about the fact that they had spent a lot of time last year developing this years car.
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This is only evident because McLaren , Ferrari and to a lesser extent (because they seem to have been ***** by FIA over the winter) Renault dropped the ball in a massive way over the winter.

Considering how much time the other teams had over the winter (when Honda where treading water and sacking people left and right) its a miracle one of the major manufacturers still couldnt produce a decent car between them and its taken 3 months or more before even one (major manufacturer) is even close to contention on race pace
 
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Spie said:
There really is a lot of nonsense talked about Ferrari in this thread. It's an unfortunate trait some people have to enjoy knocking those that have been so successful for so long.
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It's just the peculiar paranoia that folks have (particularly folks on the internet, oddly enough) about how the FIA are biased towards The Almighty Satanic Evil That Is Ferrari™. A bias which doesn't appear to extend as far as listening to Ferrari's serious concerns about the planned implementation of this budget cap.
 
deuse said:
As I have said Cosworth can do engines for F1.
it may have something to do with Cosworth signing a contract with the FIA to supply Formula 1 engines from 2010.

I LOVED my sierra cosworth.
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Cosworth engines are rubbish people in F1 have even said it that is why so many teams are staying clear of them.
 
JRS said:
It's just the peculiar paranoia that folks have (particularly folks on the internet, oddly enough) about how the FIA are biased towards The Almighty Satanic Evil That Is Ferrari™. A bias which doesn't appear to extend as far as listening to Ferrari's serious concerns about the planned implementation of this budget cap.
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They have had it their own way for donkey's years (or so it seems) so its nice to see them being taken down a peg or two :D

(admittedly this view is based on the fact that MM has had an obvious hatred for their leading competitor - and the boss in particular - for a very long period)

edGfaCTor said:
Cosworth engines are rubbish people in F1 have even said it that is why so many teams are staying clear of them.
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Not sure how long you have been following F1 but there was a time when Cosworth was THE engine to have - but much like Honda, their recent attempts have been pretty dire
 
edGfaCTor said:
Cosworth engines are rubbish people in F1 have even said it that is why so many teams are staying clear of them.
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Oh Dear

Cosworth

39 Seasons,139 Pole Positions,176 Grand Prix Wins,160 Fastest Laps,
13 Drivers Championships,10 Constructors Championships.

Not bad for a UK based company I am sure you will agree.
 
Can't live on fond memories forever though*, stay away Cosworth, your last attempt was fail.

*Edit: Although it appears people are quite happy to live in the past.
 
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FrankJH said:
They have had it their own way for donkey's years (or so it seems)
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Emphasis is my own, obviously. But I think you might have just proved my point ;)

This pro-Ferrari bias? It's all in your head guys! Doesn't exist! You could make a strong claim for an anti-McLaren bias, but a pro-Ferrari one? It isn't there.

FrankJH said:
(admittedly this view is based on the fact that MM has had an obvious hatred for their leading competitor - and the boss in particular - for a very long period)
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Precisely. Now, if sunama would just wake up and realise that one then all would be right with the world.

FrankJH said:
Not sure how long you have been following F1 but there was a time when Cosworth was THE engine to have - but much like Honda, their recent attempts have been pretty dire
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Cosworth DFV family - 155 wins in 262 races between '67 and '85. The last win for it was Detroit '83. One of the all-time great engines.
 
JRS said:
Emphasis is my own, obviously. But I think you might have just proved my point ;)

This pro-Ferrari bias? It's all in your head guys! Doesn't exist! You could make a strong claim for an anti-McLaren bias, but a pro-Ferrari one? It isn't there.
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Thats just it though - as there was only one major competitor to Ferrari for so long, and the FIA where blatantly against them all the time , it really does look like the FIA are PRO Ferrari (as no one else is really going to benefit)

;)

JRS said:
Cosworth DFV family - 155 wins in 262 races between '67 and '85. The last win for it was Detroit '83. One of the all-time great engines.
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Thanks for that - although when they came back in late 90's early 00's they looked like they where trying to use an engine from the 80's lol
 
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