Toyota will quit F1, Ferrari may quit F1 . . .

CS||nuTs said:
That figure covers the 600 or so employees based at the factory and is a rough figure, we were discussing it yesterday and i was told that £24 million is probably quite a bit on the low side.
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Well if Honda where vastly overstaffed with 700 or so, and got rid of over 300.......

(Im not knocking Red Bull, but a lot of people on here and in general where knocking the size of Honda before the layoffs earlier this season /during the winter)

JUMPURS said:
I still think making F1 overly complex doesn't help it. 3 section qualifying rules, and you must use these tyres, and some cars have KERS some don't (and there is 2 types of KERS too!!). And then, the FIA will change it all again the following season. No wonder people new trying to get into the sport give it 10 minutes, hear that idiot Legard going on about green stripes on tryes and then say 'Sod this'

I have said it before and i'll say it again, F1 does not need a budget cap, but a simplified set of rules for the viewers. Fastest car gets pole, use whatever tyres you want. But make rules easy for the followers. Sure have your technical restrictions and whatever, but the stuff the 'customer' needs to know, should be simple.
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I agree with majority of that completely

Type of KERS doesnt really matter a jot though - really, and neither does HANS (from the supporters point of view anyway).....hmmm must be going crazy thought you mentioned HANS sorry lol

Im still very much FOR a budget of some kind though, mainly to hopefully attract some more teams (Prodrive especially, and I know its highly unlikely but I would LOVE Porsche to produce an engine /team although there has been no whisper at all that its even considered) - I just think in these global economic times if teams cant be persuaded to spend reasonable amounts that all teams can afford, and balance the grid out (even if it is artificially) a bit more to get better racing them **** those teams that cant be bothered to try to lower expenditure

I will be quite happy if people prove in three months time or three years time that £40m is impossible - but Ross Brawn seems to think its possible - and he should know (along with Frank Williams) , two very seasoned pro's who dont have an axe to grind (unlike the big manufacturers) and are just supporting a small team that want to race.

If Im wrong then I will hold my hand up - but those two should know, and Im the first to admit to not knwoing enough in comparison to disagree with them!!! (Im not saying that if Brawn was forced into a £40m budget THIS season, it would be the same success, Im sure it wouldnt have been anything like it - but that isnt the discussion)
 
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CS||nuTs said:
When our wage bill alone is £24 million, i think you will find that £40 million is indeed stupid.
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The wage bill wasn't always £24 million though was it? Whilst taking the total down in one year is to much to ask, pulling the cap down gradually to around £50 million (whilst debatable as to whether it's a good idea) wouldn't IMHO be a stupidly low figure.
 
fini said:
The wage bill wasn't always £24 million though was it? Whilst taking the total down in one year is to much to ask, pulling the cap down gradually to around £50 million (whilst debatable as to whether it's a good idea) wouldn't IMHO be a stupidly low figure.
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Neither materials or employees costs go down just because the FIA impose a cap, be great if we could goto our material suppliers and say "oh we are only paying 50% of what we did last year for that material because the FIA have reduced our spending" Im afraid teams would be told to go forth and multiply.
 
fini said:
The wage bill wasn't always £24 million though was it? Whilst taking the total down in one year is to much to ask, pulling the cap down gradually to around £50 million (whilst debatable as to whether it's a good idea) wouldn't IMHO be a stupidly low figure.
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and im sure his employer openly tells all its staff the average wage and how much is spent on wages each year.

cmon guys just because he works for an f1 team doesnt mean everything he says is gospel.

i might work for overclockers (i dont) but that doesnt mean i know how much spie spends on wages each year
 
CS||nuTs said:
Neither materials or employees costs go down just because the FIA impose a cap.
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Employee costs do go down with a cap - you renegotiate the contracts of people near the top and you make redundant a load of people near the bottom. 10 years ago F1 teams did not have 700 employees each.
 
fini said:
Employee costs do go down with a cap - you renegotiate the contracts of people near the top and you make redundant a load of people near the bottom. 10 years ago F1 teams did not have 700 employees each.
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10 years ago you could catch up with other teams through testing, today you can not so you need to throw as many people as possible at it to get parts ready for the track. They might work on the first try but usually its 2 or 3 revisions to improve the performance which again takes a lot of manpower.
 
AcidHell2 said:
You do realise you can have technical freedom without all the electronics. .
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Agreed but then would nearly all the gain non electronic be aero which is want we are all in agreement mostly that we don't want?

Bennah said:
Exactly. The whole point of F1 is that you have cars that are different. Different technologies and knowledge used by the mechanics / engineers to make thier car go faster and perform better than the competition.
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Yet people spend so much time arguing over whose the best driver rather than whose the best car maker. Regardless of technology just about every fan is more interested in the drivers title than the manufacturers. In the f1 threads I've seen next to no-one caring about the constructors, it's all about the drivers title.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Agreed but then would nearly all the gain non electronic be aero which is want we are all in agreement mostly that we don't want?

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Have you forgotten engine and gear box. As well as driver controlled electrical systems and possible other computer systems. So they can eb invented and improved on and if needed by (taking away to much driver influence) banned at the end of the season.

Of course people are interested in the technology. So you want f1 to be something it is not. how can you support that argument.
 
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AcidHell2 said:
Have you forgotten engine and gear box. As well as driver controlled electrical systems and possible other computer systems. So they can eb invented and improved on and if needed by (taking away to much driver influence) banned at the end of the season.
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Oh no..please lets not let the onboard computers do it all AGAIN
they tried it a few times " BORING " is what it was.

Yes they went fast but everyone knew the car was doing it all for the driver.

EDIT= I dont care a rats hoot about technology in F1 cars I like racing at its best
Senna Vs Mansell at monaco anyone..now that was racing.
 
deuse said:
Oh no..please lets not let the onboard computers do it all AGAIN
they tried it a few times " BORING " is what it was.

Yes they went fast but everyone knew the car was doing it all for the driver.

EDIT= I dont care a rats hoot about technology in F1 cars I like racing at its best
Senna Vs Mansell at monaco anyone..now that was racing.
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I didn't say re-allow any of the banned electronics.

Go watch a1 or a different series then. F1 you will never get as close racing as hose series.

ANd here in lies the problem, you don't support f1 and you are trying to change it into something it's not. why not just watch A1 or something. Already set up and has what you want.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Have you forgotten engine and gear box. As well as driver controlled electrical systems and possible other computer systems. So they can eb invented and improved on and if needed by (taking away to much driver influence) banned at the end of the season.

Of course people are interested in the technology. So you want f1 to be something it is not. how can you support that argument.
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I know, it's a tough balance. The trouble is I'd like to see the gear change back in the hands of the driver and his own selection choice not a seamless shifting controlled gear change.

To be honest the technology is not what I fell in love with in the 80's. The cars still pretty much looked very much alike and the input was a lot heavier on the side of driver. Websites didn't exist and there was very little talk on the side of technology. So my guess is people fell in love with the drivers rather than the technology.

Even Senna himself didn't like electronics and claimed his 93 opening lap at donnington to be not that special because his electronics just worked better in those circumstances.

Everyone is different but I've always followed a driver rather than a team :)
 
AcidHell2 said:
I didn't say re-allow any of the banned electronics.

Go watch a1 or a different series then. F1 you will never get as close racing as hose series.

ANd here in lies the problem, you don't support f1 and you are trying to change it into something it's not. why not just watch A1 or something. Already set up and has what you want.
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I watch all racing be it bikes or car.
and what " technology " are you going on about then?
and it what manner will it apply to F1.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Everyone is different but I've always followed a driver rather than a team :)
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So do most people. Including me. doesn't mean we aren't interested in he technology. not that there is anything new due to the regulations. Even in the early days the core people where very much into the technology. what bhp they could get of the engine.
 
What's the max number of teams you can have? I thought that there was only room for 3 more teams really; and we have 4 bidding now. Perhaps one of them will buy STR?
 
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