Food for Thought: Should Cyclists Pay Road Tax?

scorza said:
They won't use them, their £2k carbon-fibre racing bikes with ultra-thin, near-slick tyres aren't suitable for cycle paths apparently, only the parts of the road that the cars have cleaned.
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The problem with cycle paths are as follows:

Sharing and speed: Often shared with pedestrians who don't know where their bit is and the cycle part is (either because they are clueless or the lane isn't marked properly) - I mostly cycle to get places and thus I cycle as fast as possible. using shared lanes slows me down and puts me at risk from irate pedestrians who are in the lane thinking I am at fault for cycling on the pavement.

Broken glass and other detritus: 23mm tyres not matter how much they are claimed to be puncture resistant are vulnerable to glass and other sharp objects (mostly thorns) and cycle paths around town are full of glass and other sharp trash, hell even my two inch slick mountain bike tyres don't take well to riding over broken bottles. . The road on the other hand tend to be clear of such detritus especially when not cycling in the edge of the road!

Stop start and other odd layout issues: Often cycle lanes cross road junctions and you have to slow down or stop whereas cycling on the main road gives you right of way and thus keeps your speed up. Also sometimes cycle lanes just don't follow logic and put you in odd places.

Some cycle lanes are great like the one in Derby that follows the river or the one that follows the old railway line to Burton as great long as you avoid the glass (I use my wife on her mountain bike as a spotter!) but mostly they are a waste of time for more serious cyclist. Great for families with children as it keeps them off the road whilst they amble along.

Love the comments on drains. Wonder how many people know how dangerous wet painted road markings are to two wheeled people for example and it has nothing to do with "getting a better bike"
 
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Bikes are putting a tad more power down on them though compared to you in your lycra.

And how did you managed to double post 2 mins apart?
 
willhub said:
Pedestrians - Think they own the cycle paths
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Pedestrians own the pavements, where cycling is prohibited. You should only cycle on cycle paths, or if none exists, on the road while showing proper courtesy to other road users. Never on a pavement though.
 
rypt said:
Re the first point: I never had a problem with my mountain bike handling drains - if your bike can't handle it, then get a better bike. Most of the city round here has cycle lanes as it is; and doing 5mph, on a gentle slope in a 30mph zone two abreast is not sensible - and falls under the "you must not ride in an inconsiderate manner" of the highway code.

Equally, if you were doing 35 in a 30 you are once again breaking the law; as (per the highway code) you must obey all traffic signs - which includes speed limit signs.
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Technically he wasn't breaking the law, speed limits are for MOTOR vehicles. Speeding on a bike isn't actually possible in the eyes of the law, though there is some obscure Victorian law called "pedalling furiously". Most cyclists would be proud of being successfully prosecuted for this. :p:D
 
rypt said:
Bikes are putting a tad more power down on them though compared to you in your lycra.

And how did you managed to double post 2 mins apart?
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I don't tend to wear lycra but hey at least I do look good in it keeping in shape with all my cycling!

It has nothing to do with power - it is all about traction and you can easily lose traction on wet road furniture like drains and painted markings. What you and others are not getting is some of us don't amble along at 9 MPH.

I double posted because I clicked quote instead of edit as my brain is a little fussy from pain relief.
 
oddjob62 said:
Some funny ones here
http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/
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Ha, this one is brilliant:

harlowdismounts.jpg
 
scorza said:
Pedestrians own the pavements, where cycling is prohibited. You should only cycle on cycle paths, or if none exists, on the road while showing proper courtesy to other road users. Never on a pavement though.
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I said cycle paths, not pavements.

rypt said:
Bikes are putting a tad more power down on them though compared to you in your lycra.
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How does that make sense?
 
If you did this (either the tax or the insurance) you'd have to register all the bicycles in the country either for road use or SORN as they do for cars. That would then require all bicycles to have some kind of VIN on them so that you can't pretend an untaxed bike is one of the taxed ones...

Doing all this would be a very expensive process and probably make more of the population less inclined to cycle anywhere; the resulting increase in motor users would screw up the government's plan to reduce emissions by whatever target they've been aiming for.

So I can't see it happening even if the idea has some merits tucked away inside.
 
willhub said:
How does that make sense?
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White lines, and metal drains, are less grippy surfaces - as such your ability to go over them is dependant how much you are using the tires, the more power and torque you try to transmit the more likely you are to go over the limit of grip offered by the surface.
 
willhub said:
I said cycle paths, not pavements.
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I corrected you. The vast majority of pedestrians just want to be able to walk on pedestrianised areas (e.g. pavements, shopping centres) without having to worry about some inconsiderate cyclist smashing into them. This has happened to me where a cyclist swerved into me as I was walking on a pavement :mad:
 
AcidHell2 said:
amber although wrong isn't really dangerous as the other lights have not changed yet. cyclists however just go through regardless of how long it's been. Driving in Bristol you might see 2 or 3 cars jump lights. But you will see scores of bikes jump lights.
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Amber does mean that you should be stopping if it is safe to do so or at least exercising more caution, speeding up because you don't want to wait an extra two minutes at the lights isn't what I'd call ideal but that's by the by really. Both motorists and cyclists are in the wrong at times, I'll take your word for it that cyclists tend to be worse in Bristol, up here I've noticed more car drivers failing to stop.

sunama said:
I'd agree.

I assume the fast cyclist was riding a road bike with calliper brakes?

I've ridden bikes, downhill at around 41mph and I can tell you, the bike feels unstable and knowing that my brakes are not capable of stopping me in time should anything bad happen ahead of me, makes it very dangerous. Motor vehicles can safely do 45mph, mainly because they have powerful brakes and can come to an emergency stop, in a short distance. Riding a road bike with calliper brakes, at fast speeds is definitely dangerous.
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You can get some cyclocross bikes with disk brakes and quite possibly some road bikes too. Although if calipers are good enough for Tour De France riders they should be sufficient for most mortals who can't hope to reach such speeds admittedly a cleared course is different to the roads of a city.

scorza said:
They won't use them, their £2k carbon-fibre racing bikes with ultra-thin, near-slick tyres aren't suitable for cycle paths apparently, only the parts of the road that the cars have cleaned.
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If the cycle path is passably decent then a road bike will be fine on it, the problem is that so many of the cycle paths in this country either have drains in them, potholes, cars parked in them, broken glass strewn liberally about or some other hazards in them - they're so often a poorly designed afterthought that is probably worse than nothing at all.
 
scorza said:
I corrected you. The vast majority of pedestrians just want to be able to walk on pedestrianised areas (e.g. pavements, shopping centres) without having to worry about some inconsiderate cyclist smashing into them. This has happened to me where a cyclist swerved into me as I was walking on a pavement :mad:
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He was at fault then as not supposed to cycle on pavements.

When I go down to the arndale center I usually cycle through the pedestrian bit to get to the bike locks, well I think it's a pedestrian area, it's not made clear, although it's about 25 meters wide and has nothing saying cyclists are not allowed.

Some of the comments in here regarding bicycles are funny, especially from people who know nothing about bicycles.

As for caliper brakes, if you find you cant stop safely, the breaks are worn out, probs got crap loads of metal on the pad, and the rims are dirty. I use caliper brakes and I was going down this hill trying for 50mph but only hit 48 to find round a blind bend was traffic lights, needless to say I managed to safely stop quickly at the red light. I find with working caliper brakes, good condition brake pads, I can stop from 25mph in about 4 meters or less which is perfectly fine. I don't like to make a habit of it though as doing that often = worn out rims, turning concave and one day snapping, but thats mostly caused in wet conditions.

I've been off road in Tatton park on my road bike, getting air too, beating the MTB's, I never got a puncture, but if I did that often I'd destroy the tyres, I use Michelin Krylions that I got in Jan or Feb and have not had a single puncture since, but I tend to let the tyres down and fish the glass out when I get home as it digs real deep.
 
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rypt said:
Nope, as per RTA cyclists have to obey all traffic signs and signals [and a speed limit sign is a traffic sign]; don't believe me? Check out the highway code - rule 69 http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837
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Interesting but how are bikes supposed to obey a speed limit when they are not fitted by speedometers by law? I think you can be prosecuted under other laws for exceeding speed limits on a bike, but not the ones that cover motor vehicles speeding. It probably falls under something like dangerous cycling.

Still when do all motorists strictly adhere to speed limits or other signs anyway?
 
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