Food for Thought: Should Cyclists Pay Road Tax?

Moving away from the original TAX debate I have a question for the cyclists about insurance, and this is not a car vs cycle who is the better road user argument.

If you were on your bike and a car was to knock you off (car driver being at fault) and damage your bike (for this example lets say no damage to yourself), would you expect the car owner to pay for the damage? And if you answered yes and they declined what would you do?
 
Moving away from the original TAX debate I have a question for the cyclists about insurance, and this is not a car vs cycle who is the better road user argument.

If you were on your bike and a car was to knock you off (car driver being at fault) and damage your bike (for this example lets say no damage to yourself), would you expect the car owner to pay for the damage? And if you answered yes and they declined what would you do?

Call the police.
 
I never made any statement about the tax. Oh and incidentally, road tax these days has nothing to do with the roads.

Myabe, but I was just pointing out the origin of road tax.



There's always an apologist for cyclists behaviour trying to blame the motorist... I see far more disregard for the law and dangerous behaviour from cyclists on an average journey through the city centre than I do from drivers... And let's not even discuss cyclists, road rage and their apparent propensity for criminal damage when they lash out.

Or I was asking a valid question, as a lot of large towns and cities (including Cambridge I think) have cycle lanes that appear about 50m before traffic lights and have a box in front of cars for cyclists. I was just asking him if he was sure there wasn't anything like that where he was.

And no, there are more dangerous drivers than cyclists, who are also far more dangerous to pedestrians than cyclists. For example if I hadn't been looking at a drivers hands on the wheel a couple of days ago as I was about to cross a side road I wouldn't have seen that he was about to swerve into the road I was going to cross, who needs indicators?:rolleyes: Oh and in 18 years of cycling I haven't hit anyone, whereas I have been almost knocked off my bike about a dozen times by drivers looking (or not) but not seeing when pulling out, and going round corners on the wrong side of the road, and my sister almost had her ankle broken (and her bike was damaged) by a car driver in a car park who either didn't care or didn't notice that she had just run over a cyclist, and sped off...

I think cyclists should undergo training before they're allowed to cycle any where. They're an annoyance on the roads to cars and a danger to pedestrians on the paths as they have no sense of the highway code.

I've worked in London and Cambridge where both are infested with cyclists who use any surface despite signs and road markings to get to their destination. Every day I see cyclists nearly run over by cars and idiots cycling on packed paths. I do think in these sinarios that cyclists need to be regulated but as for road tax I don't think they impact enough on the roads to incur fees to use them.

Most people do undergo training, I did, a lot of schools do it. If car drivers weren't cucooned in their own little world they might notice just how bad some of them are too, problem is they have a big box of steel round them, so if they get bumped or scraped all they have to worry about is a dent in the paintwork, whereas that same accident could easily kill a cyclist. I strongly believe that as part of learning to drive you should undergo a few months of road cycing to make you aware of just how vunerable cycling can be, and to recognise how cyclists behave (not bad behaviour, just different), also more emphasis on the rights of a cyclist (i.e. the same rights/more (in some cases) as a car driver.

And again as for the age old excuse of cyclists cycling through red lights, well every day I see car drivers speeding up to get past the amber traffic light, "ooh, sorry officer it wasn't safe to stop at that red light so I went through it"... And there is on occasion the trafic light that isn't sensitive enough (usually on smaller roads with motion sensors) to pick up a cyclist, so in that case you either wait until you get bored of life (and the cars behind you are bibbing furiously) or you get of the bike and walk onto the path and faf around going accross the roads on foot to get to the road you want, or you check there are no cars and cycle through. I'm not trying to be an apologist for cyclists actions, just pointing out that if you don't cycle (regularly) you may not realise there are a multitude of reasons for cyclists to do things that you as a car driver thinks is wrong. Of course there are a load of unsafe cyclists on the road, but that is still outweighed by car drivers.

And as someone else pointed out, if you are a pedestrian walking on a cycle track then you are just as bad as a pedestrian walking on a road, so get off the ******* cycle track!
 
I also agree with this statement. Bikes are not suitable on todays roads, they arn't powered vehicles anyway. Those mobility carts drive on pavements, often with poor driver control, and if one of those hit you it'd break your ankle for sure!

I think people have a problem with cyclists on pavements just because it shocks them when it silently overtakes, I seriously doubt anyone on here has been hit. I do agree that headphones should not be used by cyclists though, same for pedestrians crossing roads. Just using one ear won't do as it'll distort your perception of where things are coming from.

If bikes are not suitable for todays roads then what do we do? Ban cycling? Or build a massive network of cycle tracks (which through towns would have to mean changing paths and roads to cycle tracks)? Or the other option, that appears to be happening a lot is sticking lanes on the side of roads, the problem with that is the thin lanes (less than 1m) are next to useless, as most car drivers don't take any notice, and the whole lane ones have drivers up in arms, because apparently they have more right to the road than cyclists...:confused:

Bikes are fine on the roads, we jut need more training for BOTH car drivers and cyclists, so cyclists know how to act on a road (eg they do have to obey the speed limit, and traffic lights) and car drivers know how to react to cyclists, and know how they react (where my couple of months of cycling during your licence comes in).

As for headphones, again what is the difference between a car having a radio on? One earphone can distort the sound slightly, but with eyes (generally cyclists are much more observant than car drivers, especiallyig they drive themselves) it is perfectly fine. As for cycling on the pavement i'm in two minds, I occasionally do it, slowly, and have never hit anyone, and am always courteous and have never been moaned at (in fact the only time I have been moaned at was when I was cycling along a 4x4 track and some old woman decided to moan at me for cycling on it...), but that is only when the only other option is a dangerous road. Having said that I can see why it can be a problem, if you are going too fast or it is crowded (or you can't control your bike)..
 
Why on earth are you trying to find excuses for bad cycling? If someone is being an arse in a car or on a motorbike I don't try and find excuses for them.




The passenger was getting out on the curbside not into the highway. The gap was about a meter at most and yet still the cyclist decides that the curbside is a better place to pass.

No I'm not trying to defend a bad cyclist. But why would you stop 1 meter from the curb side to let someone out? You should be able to stop way closer than that...

If I was in the position that cyclist was in I'd slow down, possibly stop.
 
the whole lane ones have drivers up in arms, because apparently they have more right to the road than cyclists...:confused:

And rightly so, as long as it is money taken from the motorist that is used to fund the roads (and the cycle tracks) the motorist has more right to them than the cyclists.

Once these cycling projects are funded by money that is not taken from motorists - then perhaps cyclists will have the right to use them (which is where cycling tax comes in - if you want better facilities pay for them via a cyclist road tax).
 
No I'm not trying to defend a bad cyclist. But why would you stop 1 meter from the curb side to let someone out? You should be able to stop way closer than that...

To give the passenger plenty of room to open the door without taking out the throng of passing pedestrians. Silly I know thinking of other road and pavement users...

If I was in the position that cyclist was in I'd slow down, possibly stop.

As opposed to going round the car on the correct side? Why?
 
And rightly so, as long as it is money taken from the motorist that is used to fund the roads (and the cycle tracks) the motorist has more right to them than the cyclists.

Wrong again!

Cyclists use the roads by right. Motorists PAY for the priveledge. So, motorists have equal rights to cyclists for use, ONLY because they pay for it.

Cyclists and Motorists HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS to use the roads. Your argument is crap :p
 
And rightly so, as long as it is money taken from the motorist that is used to fund the roads (and the cycle tracks) the motorist has more right to them than the cyclists.

Once these cycling projects are funded by money that is not taken from motorists - then perhaps cyclists will have the right to use them (which is where cycling tax comes in - if you want better facilities pay for them via a cyclist road tax).

Cars use the road by licence, cyclists by inherent right so no, I can't agree that motorists have more right to the roads.
 
Cyclists use the roads by right. Motorists PAY for the priveledge. So, motorists have equal rights to cyclists for use, ONLY because they pay for it.

Cyclists use NON traffic roads by right, roads paid for by the motorist belong to the motorist - don't like it, pay some cyclist road tax to fund your precious cycle ways.
 
I'd agree.

I assume the fast cyclist was riding a road bike with calliper brakes?

I've ridden bikes, downhill at around 41mph and I can tell you, the bike feels unstable and knowing that my brakes are not capable of stopping me in time should anything bad happen ahead of me, makes it very dangerous. Motor vehicles can safely do 45mph, mainly because they have powerful brakes and can come to an emergency stop, in a short distance. Riding a road bike with calliper brakes, at fast speeds is definitely dangerous.

What about a mountain bike with hydraulic disk brakes? Bearing in mind a good one will be designed to do just those sort of speeds off road, so on road is a doddle, and a road bike is designed to do those speeds and more on road. And if you can't outstop a car on the road either your brakes arent vey good (admittedly a lot of cheap bikes will fall into this catagory) or you technique isn't very good.
 
Cyclists use NON traffic roads by right, roads paid for by the motorist belong to the motorist - don't like it, pay some cyclist road tax to fund your precious cycle ways.

Can you tell me which roads are paid for by the motorist? This becomes so tiresome when people spout the same old garbage. Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) has nothing to do with the upkeep of the roads.

Cycle ways, like roads, are paid for by many forms of taxation.
 
Moving away from the original TAX debate I have a question for the cyclists about insurance, and this is not a car vs cycle who is the better road user argument.

If you were on your bike and a car was to knock you off (car driver being at fault) and damage your bike (for this example lets say no damage to yourself), would you expect the car owner to pay for the damage? And if you answered yes and they declined what would you do?

Take not of their reg and inform the police

Cyclists use NON traffic roads by right, roads paid for by the motorist belong to the motorist - don't like it, pay some cyclist road tax to fund your precious cycle ways.

And become the Nazi party and 1950s America , what next people with wheelchairs cant use paths because its for people that walk.
 
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Road Tax (Vehicle Excise Duty) has nothing to do with the upkeep of the roads.

VED was (originally) setup as a means to maintain the roads and build new ones (and new bridges).

In the budget of 1909, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Lloyd George announced that the roads system would be self financing, and so from 1910 the proceeds of road vehicle excise duties were dedicated to fund the building and maintenance of the road system.
Excise duties specifically for mechanically propelled vehicles were first imposed in 1921, along with the requirement to display a vehicle licence (tax disc) on the vehicle, under the 1920 Finance Act. At the same time, the 1920 Act set up an account, termed the Road Fund, to receive all of the proceeds of the new vehicle excise duties, and to be used to finance road improvements in place of the 1909 scheme.
So next time you want to have an argument about VED not being for roads, look up your history.

The fact that the greedy politicians (namely that fat lump known as Churchill) have mis-appropriated funds over the years and then changed the law to cover this does not change the fact over why the road tax system was setup.
 
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Problem is uk roads and footpaths are to narrow. Even on new build estates they are to small. The goverment needs to regulate on all new builds, there needs to be a dual footpath/cycle line and bus stops that are recessed out of the road. How are things ever going to improve in this area without government backing

I know in our town, for the council to take over a road from a builder it has to have paths of 2m on either side and roads a certain width?

I don't think the problem is housing areas really anyway, it's the main traffic routes that are well used, with fast traffic (such as dual carriageways). I'm quite lucky in the town where I live as next to almost every fast road is a purpose built path and cycle track, with a kerb and double width tarmac road with lines down the middle for cyclists. Problem is they are rarely cleaned (which means glass everywhere) and pedestrians still use the cycle track (there is no way in hell they can say they didn't know what it was either)...

The only reason my town has these though is because they were designed with the town. It would be almost impossible to put this sort of thing post development into other towns and cities, it takes up too much space.
 
Only because, as I said above, the funds were mis-appropriated.

But I do not see your point. I did know what VED was set up for, but it does not get away from the fact that the tax you (and I !) pay now has nothing to do with the upkeep of the roads.

If the situation changed cycle lanes and road upkeep was paid from ring-fenced VED then I would not argue with you. But upkeep is paid from VED, income tax, council tax etc etc IIRC, which is why, in my opinion, linking VED to road upkeep is spurious.
 
Because cars do more damage to the road, the roads have always been there and cycles don't do any damage and it would take decades for bicycles to damage the road to a point it needed replacing or repairing, a junction near my house has been torn away because of the amount of traffic, cars and HGV using it, I should go a take a picture of it, I doubt bicyles did the damage.

I cant cycle passed it as the pot holes are 4 inch deep and at speed I would fall off or damage my wheels so its unfair that I should have to cycle on roads that are damaged by vehicles and by your logic pay for the privalige.

I also have a car and I pay RT and Insurance.
 
And if you can't outstop a car on the road either your brakes arent vey good (admittedly a lot of cheap bikes will fall into this catagory) or you technique isn't very good.

This simply isn't true. I've got plenty of experience both off and on road cycling, and on a bike it doesn't matter how good your brakes or technique are, the tyres are too thin and the weight is too low to attain enough friction between the tyres and the road surface.
 
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