Well yes, but this is what we are discussing surely ... we are not talking about riding two abreast at 3am on an empty road in the Scottish Highlands
To me most in town roads are not "empty" during the day
Food for Thought: Should Cyclists Pay Road Tax?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Well yes, but this is what we are discussing surely ... we are not talking about riding two abreast at 3am on an empty road in the Scottish Highlands
To me most in town roads are not "empty" during the day
Soldato
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Ok so I should have said most but common sense says some roads such as Motorways are no go zones for horses and cycles.
Motorists are getting peeved because there has been a massive increase in the popularity of cycling and now they have to share their precious roads that they assume they have a greater right to because the pay tax with pesky rule breaking hippy cyclists.
Technically nothing but in a country where there are more bikes than cars it seems to work fine.
How can a cyclist ever be equal to a motor vehicle? Cyclists need more protection simply because they are far more vulnerable.
Ok so I should have said most but common sense says some roads such as Motorways are no go zones for horses and cycles.
So you don't have a right to the roads after all...
Motorists are getting peeved because there has been a massive increase in the popularity of cycling and now they have to share their precious roads that they assume they have a greater right to because the pay tax with pesky rule breaking hippy cyclists.
Or because of the general increase in traffic of all types more motorists are falling foul of the bad cyclists and ending up out of pocket? Oh right, I forgot, there are no bad cyclists, it is ALWAYS the car users fault.
But no protection would be removed by forcing cyclists to have insurance and some way of being identified so what is the problem?
Soldato
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It is legal see Highway Code Rule 66. Also there are plenty of roads where cycling two abreast is perfectly fine. Only takes a few moments for a car driver to safely overtake.
You really do have some deep rooted issue with cyclists don't you? I often come across cycling club outings riding two abreast on out of town A roads and I simply slow down and overtake when safe to do so. There is a world of difference between riding two abreast in a sensible manner (as most serious cyclists do) and those riding two abreast weaving all over the shop.
Soldato
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I was right you do have issues with cyclists. Certain road users are prohibited from certain roads - mostly for the safety of said road users. For example: Learner drivers aren't allowed on motorways and certain slow vehicles are prohibited from busy fast A roads (mopeds for example)
These are roads where the right to use the road has specifically been suspended it does not mean cyclists (or animals or pedestrians) don't have the right to use the roads. As I said public highways that have not specifically had access restricted are used by cyclists by right not by license.
There are plenty of bad cyclists as there are plenty of bad motorists. How are road users ending out of pocket because of cyclists? Cyclists are not always blameless but from my experience with a lot of near misses I'd say it is more often that not the car drivers fault but not always.
Having insurance gives no extra protection to the cyclist and minimal protection to motorists as a cyclist can disappear quickly if need be. . Seeing has how difficult and costly to implement it wouldn't really do any good.
Soldato
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I also ride a motorbike to commute to work and I'm fully aware of being vulnerable but that shouldn't be an excuse not to be accountable for and damages I cause to others. I still have to have bike insurance (and TAX)
I also ride a motorbike to commute to work and I'm fully aware of being vulnerable but that shouldn't be an excuse not to be accountable for and damages I cause to others. I still have to have bike insurance (and TAX)
A motorbike is far different to a bicycle.
If more lazy gits got off their fat backsides and cycled to work rather than take the car there would be less 4 wheelers on the road during the commuting hours and everyone would benefit.
It's a "win-win" situation, fatso's.
Get a bike, ditch the car. You might even enjoy it.
It's a "win-win" situation, fatso's.
Get a bike, ditch the car. You might even enjoy it.
No, I have issues with bad cyclists. I used to be a cyclist and a very good friend of mine owns and runs a bike shop.
So is your issue with holding cyclists accountable or how to actually implement it? Because you seem not to want to hold cyclists accountable.
But the principle of accountability is the same and unfortunately cyclists just aren't as accountable as I have found out to my cost on several occassions.
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Specialized Pitch CompLow pressure so that the hills are beautiful when descending them, ideally off road with minimal grip and maximum mud/jumps. Hence Hamsterly forest black trail on Saturday, minimum tarmac involved.
And yes, I do ride "dangerously" on roads as well, even on my transport to work bike - I have pretty quick reaction times, and have sometimes needed them to avoid collisions with bad drivers or those who haven't seen me.
Can't ever see that changing in the forseeable future - to expect cyclists to pay for the privelege of being potentially maimed would be a little harsh.
How do you find the Pitch Comp? Read some great reviews but it looks a bit overkill for UK riding (except Red / Black level stuff at trail centres)
Which is my favourite kinda stuff
Email me in trust if you like, I can give you a bit more detail. Or just email me - this forum username at yahoo dot co dot uk.
Yeah it's likely to be down hill (which will said he was doing), but I used to be able to get 30+ on a shallow slope that is my road within only a few hundred metres, with plenty of gear ratio left, although my hardtail is close on a thousand pounds worth of kit, light and far more gears than a standard Halford jobby). I personally have never got more than about 25 off road though, I value my life...
But there are plenty of cross country and and downhillers that will do that in places on their races. Having said that it wasn't quite my point, I was more pointing out that it is reasonably safe on both a MTB and a road bike (that will obviously be able to go faster) to go that fast on the road. And yes, I have only had to outbrake a car once, I normally have to stop quickly for trees or bends...I don't know about outstopping a car, yes it is possible to do but I'd say it's on the dangerous side, I can stop very quick but if I try stop uber quick I'll just lock my back wheel up and I don't like doing that, my tyres are VERY fragile as far as skidding is concerned.
If you are doing 30mph then I can say yes 4-5m is easy, but I reckon a car can better it, anything over 30 and a car wins, I've been in the car and see how quick a car can stop from 40-50mph and I'd not want to try that on a bicycle, I cant imagine it finish well
I used to have a big heavy saracen X-Ray and it was hard to keep a high speed, I reckon I only average 16 mph on a very good day to college, 10 mile there 15 back, I could push it to about 28mph on the flat, was pretty touch but tbh I was not as fit as I am now, a slight slop got it to 31mph. If you compare a road bike, 31mph on the flat is quite easy sometimes.
When I was younger, I was on a mtb with front disk brake, and I was on the path (naughty me), car pulled out of driveway I slammed on, my bike did a back wheelie nearly vertical.
Yeah it's not a good idea to do, hence why I have only done it once, as LordSplodge says it's better to keep your distance.
As for stopping distance, according to the highway code, at 30mph a car needs 12m to stop (not including reaction time), which tbh I am very sceptical about with modern cars, but there is no way they stop in 4, and at 40mph it goes up to 25m!
As reference for myself (not particularly fit) I generally average around 12mph in town (with stopping) and around 10ish on a 30 mile round trip off road (up and down hill) (usually through areas churned up by horses where anything more than 5mph shakes the hell out of you, even with suspension), 30+ on a mtb is only really doable on a downhill or flat onroad section.
That's why I said the right technique, the only reason I know how to do it is reading mountain biking magazines and practice. Using that technique on cumbly unconsolidated ground really does stop you hitting a tree!
Admittedly most people don't know how, and maybe it should be taught, but it's a bit like anything like that, you also need it engrained in you as a reflex. 
No? I don't like the fact that they don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves. They could cause a serious accident and damage if something were to happen. You don't see motorbikes do it, because at least they have some sense.
Umm... and what about the van driver, and the van for that matter? Your blasé attitude sounds like people should not be bothered by this and we should just continue allowing this to happen.
What happens if that cyclist ran a red light, and a car trying to avoid him/her swerved and crashed into another car or worse? Also, what about the psychological damage that would result from hitting said cyclist?
Cyclists who run red lights are nothing but idiotic inconsiderate scum. End of.
Ha, this one is brilliant:
While this is funny. Doesn't it make you wonder? Who pays for those signs and the cycle lane tarmac and the lane paint? Exactly.
Cyclists should pay tax.
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I still don't understand how you can generalise cyclists, I own and drive a car, but on the odd weekend I ride a bike to and through the local park, as do many children and other adults. Does this mean we should pay a cycling tax?
If I only drive my car at the weekends, should I pay the same amount of road tax as someone who drives constantly?
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I don't think any cyclist would disagree with that.
Thought I'd just throw this in, not sure if its been posted yet...http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/69/article18.html
And look at how and why VED/Road Fund was started and what its purpose was. Just because the fat lump Churchill changed it does make it right
If you are going to quote an article make sure it is factually correct as well please.
VED + Fuel Duty combined give the government £50bn per year, which covers the £20bn more than twice over.
Equally congestion is not a "cost", road maintenance is currently at £8bn a year (and a lot of that is spent on useless things such as cycle tracks and pedestrian crossings - none of which should really come from motorist funding anyway).
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