Poll: Who will you vote for next General Election

[Dolph]

Have any of you given any thought as to how your parents or grandparents are faring under the present economic struggle ? My father is 90 & has never had it so good, he gets £400 to help him pay his winter gas bill

Is there a difference between state mandated charity and normal charity in this regard?

Are they not better off under Labour, the Labour government have improved things for the elderly such as winter fuel payments. And the pension link to earnings abolished by the last Tory government shortly to be reinstated.

You do realise the reason why Labour, in 1974, linked pensions to earnings rather than inflation?

It was the same reason the Tories changed it to inflation from earnings, namely that it was cheaper at the time.

Pension credit to help the poorer pensioners raise the basic pension up to a more realistic amount with no council tax to pay.

Which only rewarded those who didn't save and punished those pensioners who saved and stored for their retirement.

As a pensioner myself I wonder how safe all these would be under a new Tory government. Remember that pensioners who have to claim the above are not benefit scroungers, they have worked all their lives to reach pensionable age

The grey vote will count, they have long memories

Some pensioners have benefitted under labour, many have also been marginalised or had their preparations made useless by Labours changes (they have ended up no better off than if they'd not prepared). Furthermore, Labour's raids on pension funds have ensured that future pensioners will suffer, as has their massive explosion of national debt.

I remain unconvinced.

 

[aslco]

"May be just as many"

The thing is, (and IMO) the other parties do a better job of having representatives from different classes and backgrounds. The tories are like an Eton boys club, and if that isn't true, then that's how they come across to me.
Having the taxpayers pay to have your moat cleaned just about says it all for me.

yup. You said 18 millionaires.......err out of how many.....quite a few you will find! blatantly not diverse.........

And that one man isnt to blame for all these tax payer claims.

How about all the lib dem and labour claims. Atleast he didn't claim expenses on an Ipod like a certain labour member.

Nevermind all those lib dem claims.

Oh yeah and i believe the 'Torys' have been one of the best at responding to this bad spending by MPs.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Interesting that the IMF are praising the governments responses to the banking crisis.

Not to do stupid things like squander billions in tax revenue on a VAT cut, which was just a show piece and didn't mean anything to the average person.

 

[Dolph]

Interesting that the IMF are praising the governments responses to the banking crisis.

What was the Tory idea again?

They also criticised parts of it and almost all of labour's future plans...

But it warned that high levels of household and bank debt meant the pace of any recovery was still uncertain.

And it urged the government to adopt more ambitious plans to reduce the huge scale of government borrowing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8059861.stm

The tories objected to the plans due to the massive increase in debt required, the same issue that the IMF are still raising as being a significant risk to the UK.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Some pensioners have benefitted under labour, many have also been marginalised or had their preparations made useless by Labours changes (they have ended up no better off than if they'd not prepared). Furthermore, Labour's raids on pension funds have ensured that future pensioners will suffer, as has their massive explosion of national debt.

I remain unconvinced.

Correct. My generation (I am 22) will not be able to live off a state pension in we retire. We should be expecting to work past 60 (even 70) if we are in average jobs.

Labour has ruined the pensions system. It has decimated the Treasury, and exploded our national debt. It throws money at problems rather than tackling them with talent. The money pumped into NHS is disgusting. Most of the civil service is disgusting, and the cash that the government throws at problems breeds more wastage and bloat.

Gordon Brown is a proven failed economist. He is a two-faced liar and a failure. There is no one in the Labour party with the talent to trim this country, trim government and put us back into prosperity. Things have to change.

Labour is old, tired, and more of a gentlemen's club than what people here are accusing the Tories of being. Westminster needs to be purged.

Under labour;

1) We have the biggest national deficit since WWII.
2) We have the least value-for-money from the NHS, than ever before.
3) We have the most bloated, wretched and stale civil service, on a scale never seen before.
4) We have more pensioners under the poverty line now than at any point in the last 30 years.
5) We have more prisoners than ever before, in the last 50 years.
6) We more pregnant teenagers than any other comparable country in Europe.
7) We have the biggest drink and obesity problem than any other comparable country in Europe.
8) We have one of the highest knife and violent crime rates than any other comparable country in Europe.
9) We have the highest number of illegal immigrants than ever before.
10) The average policeman spends six times more time on paperwork and red tape than in the same year Labour were elected.
11) The average nurse spends three times more time on red tape by the same measure as (10)
12) School drop-out rates are at the highest they have been in two decades.
13) We have been landed in the most expensive war since WWII, and for no (yet) direct benefit to this country.
14) We are paying more into the EU money pot than under any Conservative government (especially Thatcher).
15) We are receiving the lowest proportion of investment and return from that EU money pot than at any time since the inception of the EEC.

 

[Pinkeyes]

Do you know what an Eton boys club is? Do you know anyone who went to Eton? Do you know how many Tory MPs are from Eton? By the sounds of it, your answer to each of those questions is "No", and you're just just stereotyping.

Hmm. Interestingly it was the Conservative voter lucasade1 who made reference to Eton. I was just responding.

What about them? Speaking personally, I would sooner have millionaires running the country with superb business skills handed down from generation to generation, with an Eton education than some working-class hero who spent 20 years down t'mine.

My point is that to me they come across with that stereotype even today (see moat references), so perhaps it is their failing for not convincing me as a non tory voter that they offer more than that.

 

[squerble]

Her Majesty needs to "pull ones finger out of one's arse" and dissolve Parliament

 

[Rich_L]

They also criticised parts of it and almost all of labour's future plans...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8059861.stm

Yes I read the actual report rather than the reporting of it.

The tories objected to the plans due to the massive increase in debt required, the same issue that the IMF are still raising as being a significant risk to the UK.

Oh I'm sure they objected to all sorts, what was their plan though?

 

[Tattooed]

SNP everytime for me as well.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Oh I'm sure they objected to all sorts, what was their plan though?

The official line was to support the government in the majority of their fiscal and monetary policy (except for the STUPID ideas like the showcase VAT cut, which just put us in more debt, but won Labour a few points in the idiot rags).

 

[semi-pro waster]

Is there a difference between state mandated charity and normal charity in this regard?

State charity being more guaranteed than normal charity? Just on the basis that most normal charities rely on donations to fund them and their generosity, state funding usually coming from taxes which as you've lamented before is somewhat forced i.e. if people don't want to give to charity then there isn't much in the way of financial help that the charity can provide but the state has a fairly consistent amount of money to play with and punitive measures if people don't pay their taxes.

Out of interest is there any evidence that reducing taxes provides a corrollary effect on donations to charity? It would seem logical to assume that it might but is the consequential increase enough to offset the reduction in that available through the state?

 

[Pinkeyes]

yup. You said 18 millionaires.......err out of how many.....quite a few you will find! blatantly not diverse.........

I said 18 on the front bench.

And that one man isnt to blame for all these tax payer claims.

When did I say he was

How about all the lib dem and labour claims. Atleast he didn't claim expenses on an Ipod like a certain labour member.

Nevermind all those lib dem claims.

Yep, and they are all completely in the wrong too. It wasn't about the expenses, it was about the image that Douglas Hogg sent out of the tory party for having his moat cleaned.

Oh yeah and i believe the 'Torys' have been one of the best at responding to this bad spending by MPs.

So that makes them what exactly ?

 

[Burnsy2023]

The official line was to support the government in the majority of their fiscal and monetary policy (except for the STUPID ideas like the showcase VAT cut, which just put us in more debt, but won Labour a few points in the idiot rags).

And according to some financial experts also boosted the economy.

 

[Dolph]

Yes I read the actual report rather than the reporting of it.

Oh I'm sure they objected to all sorts, what was their plan though?

Not to have run up an increasingly large national debt through the boom time, giving more freedom to act when the bust came?

You know, the plan that Blair/Brown followed for the first few years of their first term, before throwing responsibility to the wind.

 

[Rich_L]

"What are you going to do about it?"
"Well, we wouldn't have got here in the first place"
"Yes, but what are you going to do now?"
"Well, we wouldn't have had to face this"
"Yes, but that's the situation you're in, what are you going to do?"
"We wouldn't have got into this situation"
"Yes, but what are you going to do now"
"Oh, we haven't got any ideas, we'll leave them to get on with it"

Ever thought of running for the Tories, you seem very much 'on message'

 

[Sankari]

The "Abstain from voting" party is doing well, I see.

 

[Dolph]

State charity being more guaranteed than normal charity? Just on the basis that most normal charities rely on donations to fund them and their generosity, state funding usually coming from taxes which as you've lamented before is somewhat forced i.e. if people don't want to give to charity then there isn't much in the way of financial help that the charity can provide but the state has a fairly consistent amount of money to play with and punitive measures if people don't pay their taxes.

Out of interest is there any evidence that reducing taxes provides a corrollary effect on donations to charity? It would seem logical to assume that it might but is the consequential increase enough to offset the reduction in that available through the state?

I'm not sure, but then I don't support removing the safety nets, but reforming them so they treat everyone equally, which is a different idea entirely.

The point is, though, that many people won't accept freely given charity, but will accept state handouts, which are nothing but enforced charity at the end of the day. I've seen this first hand when I've offered to help people, they respond that they are not a charity case then get on the phone to the local council demanding money or goods... It makes no sense to me.

 

[Dolph]

"What are you going to do about it?"
"Well, we wouldn't have got here in the first place"
"Yes, but what are you going to do now?"
"Well, we wouldn't have had to face this"
"Yes, but that's the situation you're in, what are you going to do?"
"We wouldn't have got into this situation"
"Yes, but what are you going to do now"
"Oh, we haven't got any ideas, we'll leave them to get on with it"

Ever thought of running for the Tories, you seem very much 'on message'

The tories are too authoritarian for me.

And the argument that they wouldn't have got the country into that position in the first place is valid. With regards to how they plan to move forward, they have given hints (deal with excessive public spending and no promises of tax reduction), but given Brown's habit of stealing their policies when they did announce them (see the Labour U-turn on inheritance tax) I can't blame them for keeping quiet for now...

 

[Hatter The Mad]

And according to some financial experts also boosted the economy.

Going with the majority consensus, it didn't.

 

[Rich_L]

You make it sound like the Opposition presenting alternative proposals and/or policies, which are then taken into law by the incumbent Government is a bad thing - is that not exactly what the Opposition should be doing, acting for the good of the public rather than selfishly concentrating on their own election prospects?

Surely come election time, they can point to their proposals being taken into law as evidence of their ability to govern, as opposed to pointing to numerous meaningless objections and statements without a hint of an alternative policy?