Serious design flaw on certain 4870/4890's

Cyber-Mav · 31 May 2009 at 17:07

Final8y said:
Thing is i would not alter my purchase because of those 2 apps no matter what the brand.

thing is those 2 apps have revealed a underlying problem that still exists. the cards power supply is inadequate for the gpus needs. if that doesnt effect your purchase decision then it has to be for 1 of 2 reasons : you dont have a clue about this issue or your ignorant of it and will buy anything that has the red sticker on it.

the problem is real.... its damn real...

here is the thread and posts in question, i suggest you guys read up on it:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3817916#post3817916

FrenchTart · 31 May 2009 at 17:13

Yes! Let's roll on with the drama.

Final8y · 31 May 2009 at 17:14

Cyber-Mav said:
thing is those 2 apps have revealed a underlying problem that still exists. the cards power supply is inadequate for the gpus needs. if that doesnt effect your purchase decision then it has to be for 1 of 2 reasons : you dont have a clue about this issue or your ignorant of it and will buy anything that has the red sticker on it.

the problem is real.... its damn real...

The problem is real.
Ignorant is not knowing & if that was the case then i would not be in this thread.

The rest of your comment is based on your own shortcomings of what you think matters to everyone else.

Lightnix · 31 May 2009 at 17:16

Okay, update: Just ran the app with everything in the CCC disabled. It crashed very hard, very fast. Instant black screen after it was done idle monitoring.

Cyber-Mav · 31 May 2009 at 17:20

Final8y said:
The rest of you comment is based on your own shortcomings of what you think matters to everyone else.

thats partly true, i always believed that people want cards that are 100% reliable and can be used to 100% of thier maximum ability 24/7 with no issues.

i guess that doesnt really matter to some people. they just want cheap and well you get that you pay for. for professional graphics work can ati even be trusted in this regard now? can thier cards be used in demanding industrial usage. can the shop down the road have a lovely spinning cube rendered on a huge plasma display 14 hours a day using an ati card?

you shoudl really read that link i posted above to xtreme systems thread. argue with them if you think im wrong since im just saying here whats already been said over there.

Cyber-Mav · 31 May 2009 at 17:21

Lightnix said:
Okay, update: Just ran the app with everything in the CCC disabled. It crashed very hard, very fast. Instant black screen after it was done idle monitoring.

when did you get your card and where did you get it from?

titaniumx3 · 31 May 2009 at 17:22

*waits for games with spinning furry cubes in them*

Final8y · 31 May 2009 at 17:26

Cyber-Mav said:
thats partly true, i always believed that people want cards that are 100% reliable and can be used to 100% of thier maximum ability 24/7 with no issues.

i guess that doesnt really matter to some people. they just want cheap and well you get that you pay for. for professional graphics work can ati even be trusted in this regard now? can thier cards be used in demanding industrial usage. can the shop down the road have a lovely spinning cube rendered on a huge plasma display 14 hours a day using an ati card?

you shoudl really read that link i posted above to xtreme systems thread. argue with them if you think im wrong since im just saying here whats already been said over there.

Yes ATI cards can be used in professional graphics work as they don't do anything what that OCCT test does.

I have read the link from the first day it was posted at xtreme systems & have made comments in it, your the one that's late to the party.

FrenchTart · 31 May 2009 at 17:28

Cyber-Mav said:
thats partly true, i always believed that people want cards that are 100% reliable and can be used to 100% of thier maximum ability 24/7 with no issues.

i guess that doesnt really matter to some people. they just want cheap and well you get that you pay for. for professional graphics work can ati even be trusted in this regard now? can thier cards be used in demanding industrial usage. can the shop down the road have a lovely spinning cube rendered on a huge plasma display 14 hours a day using an ati card?

you shoudl really read that link i posted above to xtreme systems thread. argue with them if you think im wrong since im just saying here whats already been said over there.

To be honest, your rantings are just making me think less and less of "the issue"... You're clearly not very informed and you'd do better to make people take this whole thing more seriously by not talking about it.

Cyber-Mav · 31 May 2009 at 17:31

well you guys are aware of the issues, what more is there to say. if you want to go out and buy known faulty cards and are perfectly happy with it then thats your decision.

Final8y · 31 May 2009 at 17:32

Cyber-Mav said:
well you guys are aware of the issues, what more is there to say. if you want to go out and buy known faulty cards and are perfectly happy with it then thats your decision.

Yes thanks..im now going to play hours & hours OCCT,,oh sorry i mean some games.
Who's up for some BurnOut & i mean the game & not the card.

MikeHunt79 · 31 May 2009 at 17:33

Cyber-Mav said:
looks like the non reference cards that use 4 phase power regulation are uneffected by the high current draw of the gpu. best thing to do is if your in the market looking to get a 4870 or 4890 grab a non reference design card that uses more vrm phases.

as for the reference design cards, technically ati owe those guys a recall on thier cards due to insufficient power supply on the cards.

Seems a little careless of ATI to make a card with an insufficient power supply, I guess this could also be bad news for people who use thier cards to fold?

mmj_uk · 31 May 2009 at 17:34

Final8y said:
A bad comparison as Prime test many more aspects of the CPU to find what parts are not upto the task or there would not be a need for it to be run for more than 1 minute.

The GPU is not failing its the Power Unit on the card that's not up to the job on an unrealistic scenario & seeing as every CPU has bugs that under a specific scenario will cause errors, even the one your using, you better return your CPU & not use a PC at all.

This isn't just a minor logic error though, I don't know any CPU that has ever been released in which it would shut down (at stock) because a piece of software is too efficient in its usage, if you have a piece of hardware that draws a certain peak current then it's common sense to allow it to draw what it may need.

It's like Ferrari releasing a car where the engine cuts off at 100MPH and proclaiming that it's fine because the only roads you'll use it on are 60mph zones, if you want to take it for a spin around Silverstone then tough luck.

Happy · 31 May 2009 at 17:35

MikeHunt79 said:
Seems a little careless of ATI to make a card with an insufficient power supply, I guess this could also be bad news for people who use thier cards to fold?

I doubt even folding would put that much stress on them.

FrenchTart · 31 May 2009 at 17:35

MikeHunt79 said:
Seems a little careless of ATI to make a card with an insufficient power supply, I guess this could also be bad news for people who use thier cards to fold?

Clearly it's not though - folding@home is used on ati cards by tons of people and there haven't been reports of huge problems.

f@h is even included with ATI drivers...

Eye seven · 31 May 2009 at 17:35

Cyber-Mav said:
thats partly true, i always believed that people want cards that are 100% reliable and can be used to 100% of thier maximum ability 24/7 with no issues.

i guess that doesnt really matter to some people. they just want cheap and well you get that you pay for. for professional graphics work can ati even be trusted in this regard now? can thier cards be used in demanding industrial usage. can the shop down the road have a lovely spinning cube rendered on a huge plasma display 14 hours a day using an ati card?

you shoudl really read that link i posted above to xtreme systems thread. argue with them if you think im wrong since im just saying here whats already been said over there.

Forget graphics cards. Save up for a keyboard that can do caps!

layte · 31 May 2009 at 17:36

Cyber-Mav said:
thats partly true, i always believed that people want cards that are 100% reliable and can be used to 100% of thier maximum ability 24/7 with no issues.

i guess that doesnt really matter to some people. they just want cheap and well you get that you pay for. for professional graphics work can ati even be trusted in this regard now? can thier cards be used in demanding industrial usage. can the shop down the road have a lovely spinning cube rendered on a huge plasma display 14 hours a day using an ati card?

you shoudl really read that link i posted above to xtreme systems thread. argue with them if you think im wrong since im just saying here whats already been said over there.

Out of interest, what is your take on Nvidia's problems with GPU's failing due to substandard manufacturing? I have a Macbook Pro which has had it's system board replaced twice now as the GPU has failed after being put under a slight load. I dread 10.6 and it's integrated OpenCL acceleration. By your exacting standards Nvidia GPU's would also be unsuitable for professional use.

Until a real world application causes the same issues as an artificial utility explicitly designed to generate maximum heat and power draw appears, I think we can rest easy that swathes of graphics cards are not going to be failing or causing machines to crash.

I wonder if STREAM applications will load the GPU in a similar fashion, as of yet nothing has been mentioned.

FrenchTart · 31 May 2009 at 17:36

Eye seven said:
Forget graphics cards. Save up for a keyboard that can do caps!

The keyboard can do caps if you use the shift key but if you leave caps lock on for too long the entire thing shuts down

Cyber-Mav · 31 May 2009 at 17:36

MikeHunt79 said:
Seems a little careless of ATI to make a card with an insufficient power supply, I guess this could also be bad news for people who use thier cards to fold?

it is very careless, although ati now said that they will redesign the reference board to fix the issue what will they do about the current cards out there?

i know how i would feel if i had a 4870 and knew that i would be unable to ever be able to use it at 100% power because the cards power circuitry would hold it back.

Final8y · 31 May 2009 at 17:40

mmj_uk said:
This isn't just a minor logic error though, I don't know any CPU that has ever been released in which it would shut down (at stock) because a piece of software is too efficient in its usage, if you have a piece of hardware that draws a certain peak current then it's common sense to allow it to draw what it may need.

It's like Ferrari releasing a car where the engine cuts off at 100MPH and proclaiming that it's fine because the only roads you'll use it on are 60mph zones, if you want to take it for a spin around Silverstone then tough luck.

The point still stands as just like the majority do not drive a Ferrari, the majority will not use the gfx card as a primary for running OCCT.