They fought against oppression and to protect their nations sovereignty.
Welcome to the EU and the biggest police state in Europe.
So... does anyone actually care about the upcoming EU elections?
- Thread starter SiD the Turtle
- Start date
They fought against oppression and to protect their nations sovereignty.
Welcome to the EU and the biggest police state in Europe.
Allow me to climb back on it in your place. There was only one other person in the polling station alongside my partner and I today. I've made a point of asking everyone I've met (shopkeepers, customers, neighbours etc) today whether they've voted, and if not I'll be happy to drive them to the polling station and back for free at their convenience.
The response, 9/10, has been "Meh. They're all the same, who cares?".
My reply has invariably been along the lines of the people on both sides of my family who laid down their lives (and even a VC winner amongst them) to give them the right to vote. That and the fact they have no right to moan about politics and government when they don't partake in the process. Though, there is I suppose a vague argument to be made that those brave men and women fighting the great wars actually fought for their freedom of choice (whether to vote or not) rather than implicitly their right to vote itself.
Either way, apathy seems to be the norm.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 7,004
- Location
- Thessaloniki
anyone who doesnt vote shouldnt have the right to moan or complain on anything that affects their lives. Apathy is win for the politicians , fail for the public
That is how I see it: we have the freedom to vote, which means we have the freedom not to vote.
A failure to vote is not necessarily due to apathy either, it could be a rejection of all the candidates/parties on offer.
I disagree, we all have that right regardless of whether we vote.
Until there is a "None of the above" option which forces a revote if it wins then I disagree. I would much rather vote "for" someone than "against" someone.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Nov 2003
- Posts
- 7,004
- Location
- Thessaloniki
vote someone that is closer to your views. You have one chance every 4 years to do something, why wasting this opportunity ?
Associate
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,685
- Location
- Theale, Berkshire
That's true, you can whinge and moan if you want. However, your voice has absolutely no legitimacy if you have chosen to abstain from the process that was designed with the sole aim of giving you - the individual - a say (however small) in how things should happen.
I believe people who choose not to vote are simply ignorant of how important the process is and how spoiled they have been by living in a stable democracy.
Please go and vote. Get involved otherwise things will never change. Make your mark, whether it be a protest or not. If you dont agree with any party then spoil your ballot paper - it will be counted as "spoiled" a figure that often gets used to show protest.
One voice can rarely be heard over the crowd, but 100 small voices can be. You make up 1% of those 100 voices. Every individual is extremely important!
I have voted.
FWIW in a general election, with first past the post, unless you vote for the winning candidate in your seat then your vote is irrelevant and achieves sod all. So if you live in say a Tory safe seat, voting Lib Dem is utterly pointless. It doesn't mean you are apathetic, it means you have better things to do, or you reject the voting system itself.
I hear what you're saying, but that's not entirely correct, is it? I mean, if all those people who decide it's "utterly pointless" to vote got off their backsides and actually did so, maybe it wouldn't be such a safe seat any more. What's the average voter turn-out? Lucky to hit 40 to 50%? If the other 60% to 50% of voters moved themselves to a polling station and voted maybe things WOULD change? Just an idea.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2007
- Posts
- 3,739
- Location
- Delete *.*
I'll probably vote for UKIP as its one of the few parties that would take us out of the economic blackhole that is Europe, unfortunately they dont have much chance of winning but at least by voting i've had my say and done all i can.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2004
- Posts
- 16,338
- Location
- Plymouth
We had a leaflet telling us to vote UKIP - there were two problems with it:
1. It was telling us to vote UKIP
2. The candidate was none other than that evil blonde Katie woman from last year's Apprentice! Life must not be going too well for her:
Well yes, IF every non-Tory in that seat voted Lib Dem then the Lib Dem would win. But it will never happen, it's human nature, you'd never get enough people doing it.
And in any event, Lib/Lab/Con is indistinguishable, it is a false choice and they are the same party to all intents and purposes, with different names only to give us the facade of a choice.
Associate
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,685
- Location
- Theale, Berkshire
I disagree that it acheives "sod all". What it acheives is as an individual has expressed their views through the democratic process.
Using your logic you are saying that unless you vote for the winning candidate anywhere then your vote is wasted, for example - you vote lib dem and the torys win the seat, was your vote wasted because in that seat someone who you didnt vote for is representing you?
I'm not having a dig - just a debate
It is wasted in that it doesn't help the Lib Dems get any extra seats in parliament, like would happen with PR where every vote counts (as in today's EU elections in fact). In theory every seat could have 20k votes for Tory, 19k votes for Labour and 10k votes for Lib Dem and the Tories would have 100% of the seats and the others zero. Not a fair system really is it?
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 16,024
- Location
- 9th Inner Circle
Or to paraphrase: Gordon OUT!
Associate
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 1,685
- Location
- Theale, Berkshire
I can see your point, but the first past the post system does avoid the hung parliaments that would invariably come from a PR system. Having no 1 party in control means that there is no effective government and no effective opposition.
PR may be a fairer system, but I am not sure it is a better one.
There are pros and cons I agree - there is a more detailed discussion on this in SC at the moment if you are interested