The all encompassing BNP thread - keep all crap in here.

[deuse]

Sorry have I offended you? That's my own personal experience. What proof can I give you other than you being me or meeting them?

I'm not sure if you understand how things work around here but i'll assert something and that is that a town near mean is quite 'rough', high crime etc. Those are some of the people I know, used to go to school with and I can tell you that they are very collectivist when it comes to the BNP. Most of them don't even know why they are voting for them. A lot of them are unemployed and need a scapegoat for their problems.

I hear what your saying mate.
The people I talk to are the 40-70 year old, who can remember when the UK was great.
If a Murder happend it would be front page news for weeks and the cops would not stop till they got the guy.
Now its a nothing to kill some one,no one shouts about it, shame really.

A lot has changed over the last 40 years and I voted BNP because I wanted the British citizens to have a future
nothing to do with color or race I want British jobs for British people is that so wrong?

 

[Moley]

But the point that the other person (sorry, I forget the name) was making was that just because english wasn't there first language, does not mean they don't speak it fluently.

For example, I grew up in India. Only came here about 4 or so years back. But in my opinion my english is far better than my hindi. But given that I grew up in India, wouldn't that make hindi my first language? Assuming that it is, I am yet to find someone who is able to point out any serious flaws in my ability to speak,write or understand english. Just because it may be considered my second language, does not mean that I don't speak it fluently. And I hardly think that i'm an exception.

Your points are perfectly valid and thankyou for contributing to the discussion, I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't speak English fluently - however in the absense of evidence to the contrary it is reasonable to assume that they don't speak English as well as their first language and education resources are having to be spent on bringing their language skills up to par. I have no problem with this by the way - we should be teaching kids to speak English if they are going to be living in this country.

What the BNP supporters are likely to argue however, is the schools that have a significant percentage of pupils with poor English language skills are going to have to devote resources to bringing those kids up to the same level as the rest of the school - potentially to the detriment of the majority.

 

[Captain_Slick]

No we are talking about fascism as a policy the original discussion started about WW2 being about fighting fascism, I said it wasn't. The problem is because the Nazi's were fascist's all fascism is tarred with the same brush which is unfair whether you like the policy or not.

And what I'm saying is that Fascism allowed Nazism to happen to the extent it did. Without Fascism, Nazism wouldn't have gotten the stanglehold it did on all aspects of German life.

 

[Sankari]

Eh? We are one of the most multicultural countries in the world.

True, but this has not been official government policy until recent years. The UK became a multicultural society largely by accident, not by design. This is one of the reasons why it has not worked as well as in other nations.

Multiculturalism and integration are mutually exclusive. If they have their own culture, by definition they haven't integrated into ours.

False. Multiculturalism demands integration. That's the whole point. Immigrants are required to integrate with the wider community at all levels, and are permitted to preserve their own culture whilst contributing to the national multiculture. Look at Australia for examples of this.

I think you are confusing "culture" with "society".

 

[deuse]

...With a bit of luck we will see Griffin's nasty little snout in the trough and see him abuse the MEP expenses system.

You mean like the Tories/Labour/Libs have been doing for years?
They was caught on tape signing the I WILL WORK SATURDAY BOOK
and then going home and still got paid.

 

[Captain_Slick]

You mean like the Tories/Labour/Libs have been doing for years?
They was caught on tape signing the I WILL WORK SATURDAY BOOK
and then going home and still got paid.

Yeah, but they aren't massive racist bigots, so it's okay. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that, I actually mean it. I would rather have them doing that than have Griffin in any position of power. If that's the trade off, I'm fine with it.

 

[Metallifux]

And what I'm saying is that Fascism allowed Nazism to happen to the extent it did. Without Fascism, Nazism wouldn't have gotten the stanglehold it did on all aspects of German life.

There is no such thing as Nazism, Nazi is purely a contraction of National Socialist as in NSDAP. Fascists, yes, insane, undoubtedly, did they prey on the fears of the populace to get into power, absolutely. Once in power though yes they ran riot. However give anyone too much power and they will run wild with it. Germany had been a democracy it was only after Hitler came to power that they became a dictatorship and they could do what they like. Do you honestly see a time in this country when 1 party is given so much power they can abolish democracy. I think not. Sorry if I drifted off topic there but fascism and what the Nazi's did are not the same thing.

 

[Moley]

Thanks for the info. Are these all state schools?

I'm not going to go back and google them all to confirm, but I'm willing to bet at least six of them are....

Thanks again. It's good to know that these pupils speak English, isn't it?

I wouldn't go getting warm and fuzzy feelings about such a basic educational requirement to be honest.

Yes, I completely agree. Lack of integration is the single largest problem faced by the UK's belated attempts to embrace multiculturalism. It will remain an ongoing and increasingly large problem unless it is met directly with significant action. You are preaching to the choir, believe me!

Belated attempts? I thought that multiculturalism was started in 1948 with the Race Relations and British Nationality acts....

Glad we are singing from the same Hymn Book though.

 

[Captain_Slick]

There is no such thing as Nazism, Nazi is purely a contraction of National Socialist as in NSDAP. Fascists, yes, insane, undoubtedly, did they prey on the fears of the populace to get into power, absolutely. Once in power though yes they ran riot. However give anyone too much power and they will run wild with it. Germany had been a democracy it was only after Hitler came to power that they became a dictatorship and they could do what they like. Do you honestly see a time in this country when 1 party is given so much power they can abolish democracy. I think not. Sorry if I drifted off topic there but fascism and what the Nazi's did are not the same thing.

And what I'm saying isn't that. As I've clearly stated at least two times; I'm saying that Fascism allowed the Nazis to do what they did. And there is such a thing as Nazism. It's in the dictionary and everything.

 

[deuse]

Yeah, but they aren't massive racist bigots, so it's okay. And I'm not being sarcastic when I say that, I actually mean it. I would rather have them doing that than have Griffin in any position of power. If that's the trade off, I'm fine with it.

And you know these people personally do you?
What one may say on the TV may not be what he/she really thinks.

 

[Captain_Slick]

And you know these people personally do you?
What one may say on the TV may not be what he/she really thinks.

So? So long as they aren't the leaders of an openly racist/stupid/bigotted/insane/did I say stupid party or openly racist themselves, I'm fine with them being corrupt.

Griffin is a racist bigot and he is the leader of a bunch of racist bigots, the fact that he's probably more corrupt than them to boot only makes it worse.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

I'm sorry but that is just daft. The BNP did "win" - they did what was required to win, they got a larger percentage of the vote than their opponents.

Every single election has varying amounts of votes, varying percentages going to each party and large amounts of people abstaining. Next election time if the BNP lose will you allow them to say the other won on voter apathy? No of course you won't.

If we do not accept that they won legitimately by taking the largest share of the vote, then we are failing in our duty to recognise that we the people choose who wins these things and that tens of thousands of ordinary members of the public voted them into their seats!

43% of people across the EU bothered to vote this time. That's a record low. I can't remember the specific UK percentage, but it too, was very low. The BNP were not even consistent with their numbers, on large scale they lost a lot of votes.. percentage very similar to that of Lab/Con/Lib. It is *only* in those two regions they gained and even then by the *slimmest* of margins to get a seat. They did not "win"; the others "lost".

 

[Metallifux]

And what I'm saying isn't that. As I've clearly stated at least two times; I'm saying that Fascism allowed the Nazis to do what they did. And there is such a thing as Nazism. It's in the dictionary and everything.

Well. Actually. It's democracy that allowed the Nazi's to do what they did. If the populace hadn't voted for them they wouldn't have gained power. Their ideology is fascism, but the fact they were fascists didn't give them power, democracy did that. Nazism is a word that is purely used to refer to the Nazi's and no other political movement so what I said about it being a contraction of NSDAP remains correct.

 

[deuse]

So? So long as they aren't the leaders of an openly racist/stupid/bigotted/insane/did I say stupid party or openly racist themselves, I'm fine with them being corrupt.

Griffin is a racist bigot and he is the leader of a bunch of racist bigots, the fact that he's probably more corrupt than them to boot only makes it worse.

Sir being a RACIST is not illegal in the UK.
The more people say it here the more there arguments fail.

 

[Sudden]

Your points are perfectly valid and thankyou for contributing to the discussion, I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't speak English fluently - however in the absense of evidence to the contrary it is reasonable to assume that they don't speak English as well as their first language and education resources are having to be spent on bringing their language skills up to par. I have no problem with this by the way - we should be teaching kids to speak English if they are going to be living in this country.

Fair enough point, but I do think that if some serious policy is going to be considered by a government, such an assumption shouldn't be made. While it may be reasonable to assume it in a discussion, I don't think it is if the government is going to make a decision that will be impacting the children. If such a decision is going to be made, then evidence proving what you initially said should be found before going ahead with it.

What the BNP supporters are likely to argue however, is the schools that have a significant percentage of pupils with poor English language skills are going to have to devote resources to bringing those kids up to the same level as the rest of the school - potentially to the detriment of the majority.

But surely the same would apply to anyone in any subject? For example, if you have one kid whose excellent in maths, but poor in english then the teacher may have to spend a little time explaining the concept to him because of the language barrier. But if another kid understands the language perfectly but doesn't grasp the concept of the topic at all, then the teacher would have to spend extra time with him, thereby devoting resources, as well to explain it?

 

[Captain_Slick]

Well. Actually. It's democracy that allowed the Nazi's to do what they did. If the populace hadn't voted for them they wouldn't have gained power. Their ideology is fascism, but the fact they were fascists didn't give them power, democracy did that. Nazism is a word that is purely used to refer to the Nazi's and no other political movement so what I said about it being a contraction of NSDAP remains correct.

But if Fascism didn't exist, Nazism wouldn't have had anything to base itself on. Hitler wouldn't have gotten the ideas he did. The whole thing would have turned radically different. Fascism was part of the root of Nazism and helped create it.

And you said there was no such thing as Nazism. There is. Stop nitpicking.

 

[Captain_Slick]

Sir being a RACIST is not illegal in the UK.
The more people say it here the more there arguments fail.

Just because it's not illegal, doesn't mean it's okay. Stop trying to justify your horrid views.

 

[p4radox]

Sir being a RACIST is not illegal in the UK.
The more people say it here the more there arguments fail.

But it's a perfectly good reason not to vote for a racist party.

The fact that none of the vocal BNP voters in this thread will admit to being a racist is somewhat odd, however.

 

[Metallifux]

But if Fascism didn't exist, Nazism wouldn't have had anything to base itself on. Hitler wouldn't have gotten the ideas he did. The whole thing would have turned radically different. Fascism was part of the root of Nazism and helped create it.

And you said there was no such thing as Nazism. There is. Stop nitpicking.

I'm not nitpicking, now you suggest that fascist ideology is to blame, was communism to blame for Stalin's attrocities? What about communist China. It's not the ideology it's the people. Your final statement is almost childish, yes Nazism is in the dictionary but it's origin's are as I described and maybe based in fascism but again, the people not the ideology.

 

[Moley]

They did not "win"; the others "lost".

I know it's just semantics, but how did the others lose? By getting less votes than the BNP who "won".

Just because the turnout was low - which incidently in nothing unusual in this day and age, voter turnout has been decreasing year-on-year for decades now - doesn't detract from the fact that they won the largest share of the votes of the people who bothered to turn out.

You can't get hung up on the idea that less people turned up to vote than the major parties would have hoped for - thats all part of the process - voter turnout is a red herring that the losing parties always blather on about after the results are in - but who's to say that the BNP wouldn't have got a larger chunk of the vote had turnout been higher? You can't point to historical figures that suggest that most people vote one way or another, because this whole election has clearly been a huge protest vote - with some people protesting against the government (voted Tory, Lib Dem perhaps) and some people protesting against all the major parties (vote ukip, bnp, etc).

Lets face it, until we have mandatory voting the true will of the people will never be know for sure.