UPS or Surge Protection?

Stuarts

Stuarts

Stuarts

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Right. Final piece of the jigsaw puzzle :-)

I have just splashed the cash on two PCs. I all singing, all dancing. One windows home server for backup.

The all singing one is powered by a Corsair HX1000 Watt.

The backup one is powered by a Corsair 650 watt.

I thought it might be a good idea to get a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply), and plug these two into that. So that if there is a power outage etc, they don't get harmed.

I don't want to work through the power outage. Just not have the computers get fried, and preferably just turn themselves off asap as gently as possible.

Don't really want to spend more then about £100 on this (if possible).

Have found a second hand "MGE Ellipse 1500 USBS 1500VA - 900 Watt" for £115. Would this be ok to plug the two PCs and 2 x 22inch Dell Monitors into the "UPS and Surge" sockets on it into?

But by the same token don't want to stifle the pc's (do you limit the power of the PC if you plug it into one of these, rather then into the wall directly?)

Or is this all overkill, and I should just get some kind of surge protection? (I wonder about those as well. If you plug six gadgets into a plug pack, as opposed to directly in the wall, then are there any drawbacks to that?)

As you can tell I know very little about electricity!!

Any suggestions?
 
It's worth having - it'll see it through a short power outage and in a longer one will give you time to get to the PC and shut it down when you notice the power's gone.

I'd suggest one for each PC for piece of mind - two will give you a much smaller buffer for the power to come back.

Don't bother with the monitors on it either, just put them on a surge protector. The monitor's will drain the UPS's power for no real gains. Just set a hibernate shortcut and hit that on the keyboard when the power goes.

Surge protection = vital... it can easily blow the PSU and possibly more.ng until it turns off
 
Audigex said:
It's worth having - it'll see it through a short power outage and in a longer one will give you time to get to the PC and shut it down when you notice the power's gone.

I'd suggest one for each PC for piece of mind - two will give you a much smaller buffer for the power to come back.

Don't bother with the monitors on it either, just put them on a surge protector. The monitor's will drain the UPS's power for no real gains. Just set a hibernate shortcut and hit that on the keyboard when the power goes.

Surge protection = vital... it can easily blow the PSU and possibly more.ng until it turns off
Click to expand...

Some UPS's are capable of shutting down the PC gracefully through a USB connection + custom driver, may be worth looking into that too.
 
UPS, some even have filtering in order to give a cleaner sine wave.

That said, you're using a decent PSU so really it should be able to cope with low voltage and over voltage (to an extent!)
 
Right. Thanks.

This one seems to get good reviews:

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/labs/120637/apc-backups-es-700va.html

Just had a look. Seems to be £77.04

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=UP-017-AP&groupid=702&catid=55&subcat=1208

Note sure whether it does this?

UPS, some even have filtering in order to give a cleaner sine wave.
Click to expand...

Was thinking getting two of them. And then maybe having only the 'beefy' PC plugged into one of the sockets on one (ie leaving three of the 'Battery Backup' ones free); and then having the lower powered server one, and my two 22 inch monitors plugged into the 'Battery Backup' on the second unit.

Any good?
 
Stuarts said:
Was thinking getting two of them. And then maybe having only the 'beefy' PC plugged into one of the sockets on one (ie leaving three of the 'Battery Backup' ones free); and then having the lower powered server one, and my two 22 inch monitors plugged into the 'Battery Backup' on the second unit.

Any good?
Click to expand...
That should be fine, I see no reason why that would not work. :)

I'd try and get a UPS with sine wave output, take a look at this: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/funcOutput-c.html
 
In the spirit of answering my own question :-)

Just reading on in that link you kindly posted:

Modified square wave output is used on many lower- to middle-range UPSes, and is also sometimes called "stepped approximation to a sine wave", "pulse-width modified square wave", or even "modified sine wave". The last term is marketing cutesy-speak, since the output form isn't really a sine wave, modified or otherwise.

In practical terms, for a home PC UPS modified square wave output is fine. It will power a PC, monitor and similar equipment without any trouble. Of course, also remember that less expensive UPSes are normally running off line power anyway, and it is only when operating off the battery that the output waveform comes into play
Click to expand...

Seems its not ideal. But will probably work.

Not sure if there are any better solutions in that price bracket?
 
Stuarts said:
Just checking out APCs definition for this product here:
They describe the waveform type as:
Stepped approximation to a sinewave
Any good?
Click to expand...
UPS can output some of the 'dirtiest' power a computer will even see because computer internal protection is so robust. Most will claim clean power only because it was claimed subjectively.

For example, that 230 volt output can be two 400 volt square waves with a spike between at 500 volts. That is also a stepped or modified sinewave (whatever sales term they choose to invent). And that is not destructive to any computer.

That same output can be harmful to other appliances such as electric motors. But perfectly acceptable to any computer because computer power supplies make 'dirty' electricity irrelevant.

UPS has only one function - data protection. They may claim other functions - subjectively. For example, the near zero surge protection gets promoted as 'surge protection'. Where does its numeric specs list each type of surge and protection from that surge? It does not. Its near zero joules are enough for others to recommend it for surge protection.

UPS connects the computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the protection? Where is the filtering? Protection filtering may be for its own power supply. Why? Any protection or filtering that might be done inside a UPS is already performed inside the computer.

Hardware protection is located elsewhere. The UPS serves only one purpose - to protection data from blackouts and brownouts. Those other functions exist - and are near zero.

Running computer components from different UPSes – that’s asking for damage. Each component should be designed to make that ‘problem’ irrelevant. But do you always depend only on backup systems to protect your hardware? UPS is for data protection. Connect to a UPS only items necessary to save data.
 
Is this the kind of analysis you are referring to?

http://www.circuit-magic.com/downloaden.htm

Must admit, I am not totally convinced by these devices. But still, on balance, its probably better to have one then not have one.

I bought two of these - APC Back-UPS ES 700VA 230V - in the end.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=UP-017-AP&tool=3

I am going to plug the main PC into one (the one that has a graphics card), and the server (no graphics card) and the two monitors into the other one.

I am quite comfortable that the server should be easily taken care of. (No graphics card, gadgets, just 6 hard drives - So probably less than 200 watts all the time)

And that at idle my main PC is apparently about 280 Watts. So, hopefully, most of the time that should be cool as well.

Which UPC devices are you guys with Beefy PCs using?
 
Stuarts said:
And that at idle my main PC is apparently about 280 Watts. ...
Which UPC devices are you guys with Beefy PCs using?
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Circuit analysis as in 'learn what is really inside the UPS rather than the popular myths that many believe'.

Appreciate how a UPS is really sized. At 280 watts, that UPS must also provide peak power. And then power consumed may be less than power required (because the load is so reactive). These UPSes are optimized mostly on price. Battery degrades quickly. Battery replacement is as short as every three years. Size a UPS even larger because the battery will degrade quickly and significantly. That means a 600 watt UPS for a 280 watt computer might be undersized.
 
You sure that 700VA unit will be enough for the 'main' PC? See I have a 650VA/400W APC unit which I've found the runtime is not that accurate for a system with a 400W PSU + a 19" TFT monitor (roughly 20W) plugged in :(

APC have a good 'UPS selector' tool here.
 
Ok. Little update.

Got two APC Back-UPS ES 700VA 230V - in the end.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=UP-017-AP&tool=3
Click to expand...

Have now got these two working on the MainPC and the Server.

The APC software does actually work with Windows 7 64 Bit RC 7100 Build (though it makes no mention of it, and APC support is useless) and Windows Home Server SP2

One thing to watch out for with 'APC Powerchute Personal Edition' is that it vastly overstates how much backup time you have when you first install it.

When I plugged mine in it showed 42 minutes on the server and 36 minutes backup time on the mainpc.

Great I thought, loadsa space. I will plug some more gadgets into the 'backup' part of the device. Take full advantage of my battery. Speakers, router etc

Hmmm... Bad idea. Not actually so.

I simulated a powerout by pulling the plug on both.

The server was fine. But the mainpc was not a happy camper. It just about shut down ok, but I almost managed to fry it in the test.

Next test. I went back to my original plan. Only have the main pc plugged into one box (nothing else on the backup side); and then have the monitors and the server pc which has much less drain on the other box. Forget internet routers, speakers, printers etc. These boxes just don't have the juice. You literally just want to be able to shut down. Nothing more.

When you simulate a blackout the software recalibrates the real time available based on actual load.

So now, it is showing as 6 minutes backup time for the mainpc, and 15 minutes for the server.

If you are doing this then its really important to know. I had originally setup the software to close down when there were 8 minutes of battery backup left (and remember it was showing as 42 and 36 minutes respectively).

It flipped out the first time on the main pc, because there were less then this available to begin with. And a few settings went haywire. It had to reinstall some past settings when I rebooted that time after plugging the pc back into the mains (which was a pain, because I had to find a 'normal' plug in type keyboard, rather then the wireless one, as it was a pre-windows screen, and hence wasn't supported. It worked after that thankfully, but was a wake up call.

So I have now set both to shut down after 1 minute on battery. (And suggest you do likewise. You have less time then it tells you by a country mile)

I just tested them again by pulling the plugs (a day later to let the batterys recharge)

This time both worked fine.

The server shut down after a minute, and the mainpc went into hibernation after a minute (I think because I had specifically left some files open, created some new content that wasn't saved). After I put the plug back in, the mainpc computer automatically started up. The files were also still open up where I had left them, all work intact, and upto date, so I guess it saves the settings. The server stayed closed down, and I had to reboot it. Which is fine for a server, as I am not doing anything on it directly anyway.

It probably worked like this, becausze there were no open files on the server?

Anyhow, school report. This APC is a good option. It probably won't save your arse if their is a power outage during game play. But for most other scenarios, it will work.

2 observations:

1/ Set the computer to shut down after 1 minute (thats the minimum) in the software.

2/ Don't be 'fooled' by the software into thinking you can plug a ton of gadegts into the battery backup side (the surge protector side is obviously fine to do that with).

The software is WAY off beam, UNTIL you have actually had a blackout scenario, and then it recalibrates.

Based on my battery readings, it then becomes reasonably accurate.

But you should definitely still shut down asap when on battery, or it won't do you any good having it because the battery will simply die on you.

Start off by testing with the MINIMUM amount plugged in, and plug in more, as you test it with your actual equipment. (I started off with the MAXIMUM plugged in, which wasn't very bright of me)

Anyhow, hope folk find that little review useful.
 
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cheers dude I found this too... also found the waste energy from a UPS I didnt think was worth it and stopped using it for a surge protector

Stelly
 
Ive just decided to get one, and your review was incredibly useful Stuarts. Ive bought one for my WHS system. There was a lightning storm here couple of weeks ago, and we had 2 power cuts. Im surge protected (Of course!) but I dont want data corruption. Ive been meaningto get one for a while. This will give it time to shut down properly!
 
Would one of the backup-ups ES jobbies be enough to power 2 boxes with a 1 minute shut down on them?

Both rolling with 600w PSU's, supposidly from Antec's site configurator drawing 340w each.
 
It depends a surge protector is usually sufficient for most people and even in the rare case you got a power outage, it should not harm the computer in anyway

But some people may have to live with power outages fairly often in which case you should consider a UPS

For example me living where I do in the UK my power is very good and we rarely have power outages maybe once a year if that, so I just have a surge protector
 
my house runs on an electric meter, so it happens quite oftern for me, me or my mum forget to fill it up, I come home from work, go to the fridge to get a drink... no light, d'oh!
 
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