4870 X2 vs 4890

[Griff7520]

I've had dual 3870s, a 9800GX2 and an HD4870X2. This is the first time I've ever heard input lag mentioned with regard to multi-GPU setups, and it certainly isn't a problem I've ever had.

The 4870X2 was a great card.

What he said!

 

[hughythomas]

As far as I remember, people concerned about min FPS where more likely to go for the single GPU solution as the often had better and more stable min FPS.

Exactly what I found. Min FPS to me is the most important and on this front, the X2 just simply does not deliver (or at least when I was using it circa CCC 9.3). Of course this is all subjective but I would see higher actual FPS in games than my friend on his 4870 but then we all noted his was 'snappier' and 'smoother' also more consistent.

 

[wombraider]

Can you provide an example of a game older than 1 year that would need another 4890/280 etc other than Crysis

arma 1 , IL-2 ( IF you want to max graphics settings)

 

[antran]

i cant remember where i saw the review, the 4890 lost to the 4870 x2 in performance by 10%

 

[Final8y]

That was one of my points, what the hell is the need. I was seeing 300+ FPS in CoD4 on my system everything maxed out on 1080p. Why on earth would you even think about a multi GPU setup for that game, similarly a very poor example for portraying the benefits of SLi/Xfire when the game runs absolutely fine on cards costing sub £100.

The games that probably don't need the performance boost are the ones getting the substantial increases from SLi/Xfire.

300 fps is not the avg for games so that's not a valid example of the avg performance that people are getting in general with games as there would be no SLI or crossfire in the first place in that were the case.

 

[reflux]

You seriously think the X2 is quicker in Crysis??

When I moved to even an air cooled GTX285 the difference in FPS was quite noticeable...for the better!

It was, the difference was noticeable. I completed Crysis and Crysis Warhead twice with a nicely playable frame rate (all settings maxed, 1920x1200, 4xAA). Stuck in the 280 and it was touch and go. This was on my old setup; Q9450 @ 3.6ghz.

I ended up selling the 4870X2 because, great card as it had been, there just wasn't any need for it after I had finished with Crysis.

 

[Final8y]

Am I the only one who noticed huge micro-stuttering/inconsistent FPS + input lag (irrespective of Vysnc) on the 4870X2?? I am, for the moment going to stay well clear of multi-gpu setups.

Seems some people notice these things some folk don't. I know that 3 of my mates did when we compared two almost identical systems (albeit with different cards - 4870 vs 4870X2). All of us preferred the 4870 as the frames wouldn't bounce around all over the place and the game felt more responsive.

To those people who have Crossfire/SLi - Have you played a game on a decent single card recently? If not I would highly recommend it...just so you can see if YOU feel there is any difference between the two as I'm sure if you play fast-paced action games , the single cards are much snappier.

That's why i stay with an AMD set-up for crossfire as they are made to work together from the get go & i just don't get the issues you described.

 

[Final8y]

If the CPU is the bottleneck, adding another card won't make much if any improvement, it could even degrade the minimum FPS so I'm not sure how its really improved your online min FPS rate.

I don't play WoW either, never had. I'm aware a lot of people moan about a low FPS in populated areas. TF2 which I do play had the same problem in 32 man servers during heavy firefights. I saw no improvement in the min FPS going from an 8800GT to a 4870 last summer and later discovered it not the card's fault but the fact the game didn't support multi core, thus was limited by one processing thread. If the CPU can't process the data quick enough to send to the graphics card, it doesn't matter how many GPUs you have.

As far as I remember, people concerned about min FPS were more likely to go for the single GPU solution as the often had better and more stable min FPS.

My minimum frame rates have always been better with multi GPU. I just seem to get the right combo of hardware.

 

[Final8y]

NEARLY ALL NEW games , see the issue ?

Play something older than 1 year and your buggered , or play a not so popular game and your buggered

I crossfire games today that came out from when the 1800xt was king & they run great.

 

[Final8y]

What is the argument for single cards these days?

Multiple GPUs do not have any real problems, and nearly all new games gain a big boost from Crossfire/SLi.

From the the people who had issues who can not accept that there is a possibility that others do not.

Too many people like to put there bad experiences down as the de facto.

 

[Amnesia]

My minimum frame rates have always been better with multi GPU. I just seem to get the right combo of hardware.

i would have thought a game that is being bottlenecked by the cpu would suffer even more with the overhead of a 2nd card.

 

[Final8y]

i would have thought a game that is being bottlenecked by the cpu would suffer even more with the overhead of a 2nd card.

If your CPU bottlenecked then you sort out your CPU.
It would be silly to add more GPUS to a CPU limited setup that is CPU limited on 1 GPU.

Its not hard to work out when the CPU is the factor.

 

[Amnesia]

getting bottlenecked on cpu or graphics usually depends on the game....multiplayer games especially where there are lots of people on the server depend more on cpu as someone else has already pointed out.

so the dual card setup would be less suitable for some hardcore fps fan who loves fragging online ?

sorry im not trying to argue if thats how its coming across as i have zero experience with dual card setups.

 

[Final8y]

getting bottlenecked on cpu or graphics usually depends on the game....multiplayer games especially where there are lots of people on the server depend more on cpu as someone else has already pointed out.

so the dual card setup would be less suitable for some hardcore fps fan who loves fragging online ?

sorry im not trying to argue if thats how its coming across as i have zero experience with dual card setups.

Nothing is absolute, you take care of where the bottleneck is a problem on avg either at the CPU or GPU level where the performance is not satisfactory.

I could hit 300FPS in COD4 at 2560x1600 but only after dropping the quality settings & the minimum fps did not drop as much when things got hetick, so that would point to the GPUs & not the CPU.

Multi player puts more strain on the CPU, but if your GPU is struggling anyway that becomes irrelevant. gfx are gfx & multi player does not magically transfer gfx load to the CPU, people are nearly always GPU bottlenecked.

 

[judmann]

well weekends over with and last night i bought the Asus 4890 the price was to good.

many thanks for all your replys.

 

[elpedro]

I could hit 300FPS in COD4 at 2560x1600 but only after dropping the quality settings & the minimum fps did not drop as much when things got hetick, so that would point to the GPUs & not the CPU.

Yes you could, I can do that anyway with max settings but it proves jack squat.

gfx are gfx & multi player does not magically transfer gfx load to the CPU, people are nearly always GPU bottlenecked.

Yes, graphics are graphics. No, games don't run soley on the GPU. You should have an equally powerful CPU to GPU setup to get the best. As explained, the GPU doesn't calculate the player locations, message transmitions, updating live scores, mini maps showing player whereabouts etc. In real basic terms the CPU does all this, sends the info to the GPU which renders the frame and spits it out to your monitor or whatever.

The CPU can't keep up with all the info its taking, its going to limit the data sent to the GPU, thus the information being updated less frequently, this phenomenon we know and love is called FPS lag.

Obviously FPS lag can be down to a variety of factors, the main ones being GPU and CPU power.

i would have thought a game that is being bottlenecked by the cpu would suffer even more with the overhead of a 2nd card.

This gent speaks the truth, high end CPUs are recommended for multi GPU setups in order to supply the two or more GPUs with the data they need. You would probably have a higher min FPS if you only had one of your 3870s installed.

well weekends over with and last night i bought the Asus 4890 the price was to good.

many thanks for all your replys.

Good stuff, exactly what my choice would have been

 

[Final8y]

Yes you could, I can do that anyway with max settings but it proves jack squat.



Yes, graphics are graphics. No, games don't run soley on the GPU. You should have an equally powerful CPU to GPU setup to get the best. As explained, the GPU doesn't calculate the player locations, message transmitions, updating live scores, mini maps showing player whereabouts etc. In real basic terms the CPU does all this, sends the info to the GPU which renders the frame and spits it out to your monitor or whatever.

The CPU can't keep up with all the info its taking, its going to limit the data sent to the GPU, thus the information being updated less frequently, this phenomenon we know and love is called FPS lag.

Obviously FPS lag can be down to a variety of factors, the main ones being GPU and CPU power.




This gent speaks the truth, high end CPUs are recommended for multi GPU setups in order to supply the two or more GPUs with the data they need. You would probably have a higher min FPS if you only had one of your 3870s installed.

The thing is the CPU can keep up with all those things..well mind does anyway.
No my minimum FPS are not higher with one gpu ever and seeing as the Average & the minimum fps are the most important to me do you really think that i have not tested such conditions already.
On an intel system the FSB can become saturated, excluding i7

Yes you could, I can do that anyway with max settings but it proves jack squat.

It proves that my GPU is the bottleneck as i cant do it at max settings nore would it matter where the bottleneck is at max settings if its in the 100s

 

[ian|Squared²]

£328 for a card that performs only slightly better than a 4890, that costs half the price? Madness.

Not to mention the Asus GTX285 is £100 cheaper than that one.

Anyone know why the ASUS model is so much cheaper? Is the cooler not as good or something?

 

[elpedro]

The thing is the CPU can keep up with all those things..well mind does anyway.
No my minimum FPS are not higher with one gpu ever and seeing as the Average & the minimum fps are the most important to me do you really think that i have not tested such conditions already

Its pretty hard to consistently test your min FPS in the middle of a 44 man multilayer game when the CPU is going to be taxed the most. But hey, if you're convinced there's not let down in your system, that's cool. Me, I'm yet to find a game I need SLi/Xfire for, yeah, Crysis would be nice but I played it set all high through the entire game an enjoyed it.

Anyone know why the ASUS model is so much cheaper? Is the cooler not as good or something?

Nope, it uses the reference cooling and is probably one of the better ones for warranty and extras. Just the price OcUK buy them in for, they are able to sell them at this price.

 

[hughythomas]

My minimum frame rates have always been better with multi GPU. I just seem to get the right combo of hardware.

Yer I wasn't disputing FPS not being higher - but due to micro stutter, to my eyes games just 'feel' laggier. I can't believe no one knows what I mean we setup 4 different computers and all witnessed this first hand (circa CCC 9.3). A lot of my mates play games and I have built systems for them, some on multi-gpu (as requested) and some on single. My first foray into mutli-gpu was the X2 and it was awful in all but two games...UT3 and Grid. My mates 4870 completely destroyed it in terms of actual smoothness despite my setup (according to FRAPS) having double the FPS. Possibly a CPU bottleneck at the time? I don't honestly know...all 4 computers were using 8400s @ 4Ghz+

I would love to see another X2 or 295 or any crosffire/Sli setup for that matter again "in the flesh" as I'm not opposed to the idea I am just slightly jaded by my experiences with it. I am of course always willing to keep an open mind though!

Anyone live in Surrey with Crossfire/SLi?