Homeopathy

[I get around]

The mind is a powerful thing....................................

This, treating the mind can fix the body.

All these people posting "hippy crap i won't try it" but you, don't give it a go, you don't know. People seem to think unless you're unhappy and filled with chemicals to make you feel better theres something terribly wrong because you're not "normal"
When i'm a relatively unhealthy person, i never get sick, i personally think it's because i'm peaceful and happy.

Severe mental trauma can cause physical problems, thats proven. broken heart syndrome.

 

[Angilion]

Dara O'Briain covered homeopathy and the general ignorance of science in "Dara O'Briain Talks Funny", about 20 minutes in. It's very funny. I'd quote some, but it's full of swearing and it's far better heard in order to appreciate his delivery.

 

[Angilion]

This, treating the mind can fix the body.

All these people posting "hippy crap i won't try it" but you, don't give it a go, you don't know. People seem to think unless you're unhappy and filled with chemicals to make you feel better theres something terribly wrong because you're not "normal"
When i'm a relatively unhealthy person, i never get sick, i personally think it's because i'm peaceful and happy.

Severe mental trauma can cause physical problems, thats proven. broken heart syndrome.

And how can that be treated with magic water?

"All these people" are posting about things such as evidence of healing, as opposed to paying someone for magic healing that has no evidence of working.

Feel free to point out anyone, anyone at all, who has taken the position that you claim we're all taking.

I think your argument is as baseless as the treatment of illness through the use of expensive magic water.

 

[oli collett]

This, treating the mind can fix the body.

All these people posting "hippy crap i won't try it" but you, don't give it a go, you don't know. People seem to think unless you're unhappy and filled with chemicals to make you feel better theres something terribly wrong because you're not "normal"

Are you seriously suggesting that to understand whether Homeopathy works better than placebo, the best way is to try yourself, and ignore the trials, meta-analysis and the simple fact that it's scientifically ridiculous?

Or are you suggesting that it's all about the power of the mind, which seems to be your way of describing the effect you get from taking a placebo...?

I'm not sure I really understand the point you're making here.

 

[sendos]

Herbal/Chinese/ayurvedic medicine = pretty damn good at some things.

Western medicine = amazing at some things, bad at others (nutrition, cholesterol etc), suffers from ridiculous bias due to pharmaceutical industrys vested interests.

Homeopathy = UTTER HORSE ****

 

[oli collett]

Herbal/Chinese/ayurvedic medicine = pretty damn good at some things.

Western medicine = amazing at some things, bad at others (nutrition, cholesterol etc), suffers from ridiculous bias due to pharmaceutical industrys vested interests.

What can Herbal/Chinese/Ayurvedic do that western medicine, or a placebo can't? The only evidence i've seen for herbal remedies working is for when consuming plants which contain active ingredients which are available in drug form. Consequently they would suffer from the same side effects as they would taking the drug, the only difference being it's probably going to be prescribed by someone less qualified than a GP, so I fail to see what benefit this has as an alternative to western medicine?

What is it that Western Medicine is bad at with regards to nutrition?

Also you mention bias due to vested interests, why is it only relevant to western medicine?

 

[chrisd]

Western medicine = amazing at some things, bad at others (nutrition, cholesterol etc)

How is western medicine 'bad at nutrition and cholesterol'?

 

[sendos]

For one they are stuck in the dated low fat/high carbohydrate paradigm. Most GP's deal out the nutritional advice yet have very limited training in the area and it seems to be the blind leading the blind.

With regards to cholesterol, through numerous personal experiences the general approach is to treat the symptoms by throwing a shed load of statins at people, rather then treating the cause by a revision to diet and other supplementation. My GP is woefully under educated with regards to total cholesterol and the importance of other risk factors associated with CVD

Ayurvedic and chinese medicine don't really offer more effective treatments, but its the whole philosophy of the medicine. They aim to treat the cause directly instead of blanket treatments for symptoms with pharmaceutical interventions e.g statins etc.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

For one they are stuck in the dated low fat/high carbohydrate paradigm. Most GP's deal out the nutritional advice yet have very limited training in the area and it seems to be the blind leading the blind.

With regards to cholesterol, through numerous personal experiences the general approach is to treat the symptoms by throwing a shed load of statins at people, rather then treating the cause by a revision to diet and other supplementation. My GP is woefully under educated with regards to total cholesterol and the importance of other risk factors associated with CVD

Ayurvedic and chinese medicine don't really offer more effective treatments, but its the whole philosophy of the medicine. They aim to treat the cause directly instead of blanket treatments for symptoms with pharmaceutical interventions e.g statins etc.

GPs, or the nurse at the practice, should be able to give good advice on how to lose weight, eat a balanced diet and have a healthier lifestyle. The reason they prescribe statins so frequently is dietary cholesterol contributes only a small fraction of your total (~25% iirc) and statins have been shown time and again in massive trials to significantly lower the risk of heart attacks and strokes, whilst having a low incidence of significant side-effects. Additionally, sad though it is to say, many people won't really change their lifestyle, whereas they may happily take a statin.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

For one they are stuck in the dated low fat/high carbohydrate paradigm.

Are you suggestng they give people advice on the Atkins diet?

 

[sendos]

Are you suggestng they give people advice on the Atkins diet?

Of course not, although time and time again low carbohydrate diets outperform low fat when it comes to improving CVD risk factors. But people avoid all fats like the plague, apart from the so called 'good' fats like vegetable oils etc which if anything only compound the problem.

GPs, or the nurse at the practice, should be able to give good advice on how to lose weight, eat a balanced diet and have a healthier lifestyle. The reason they prescribe statins so frequently is dietary cholesterol contributes only a small fraction of your total (~25% iirc) and statins have been shown time and again in massive trials to significantly lower the risk of heart attacks and strokes, whilst having a low incidence of significant side-effects. Additionally, sad though it is to say, many people won't really change their lifestyle, whereas they may happily take a statin.

Did i say anything about dietary cholesterol? thats probably the biggest con of all leading people to believe cholesterol in the diet has any correlation to serum cholesterol.

I don't doubt the fact that statins do what they are meant to do, and for the masses its obviously better then nothing because as you say people generally aren't willing to change their lifestyle. But for those that are, there are much better options then necking some statins.

I achieved better improvements in CVD risk factors (LDl/HDL, lipo A, triglycerides) in my dad by just making him supplement with niacin, vitamin D 5000iu, magnessium, and 5g fish oil a day without any changes in diet. Then my mum achieved with 6 months on statins.

 

[I get around]

Are you seriously suggesting that to understand whether Homeopathy works better than placebo, the best way is to try yourself, and ignore the trials, meta-analysis and the simple fact that it's scientifically ridiculous?

Or are you suggesting that it's all about the power of the mind, which seems to be your way of describing the effect you get from taking a placebo...?

I'm not sure I really understand the point you're making here.

What i'm saying is homeopathy works in the ways of a placebo if it doesn't work.

 

[oli collett]

For one they are stuck in the dated low fat/high carbohydrate paradigm. Most GP's deal out the nutritional advice yet have very limited training in the area and it seems to be the blind leading the blind.

With regards to cholesterol, through numerous personal experiences the general approach is to treat the symptoms by throwing a shed load of statins at people, rather then treating the cause by a revision to diet and other supplementation. My GP is woefully under educated with regards to total cholesterol and the importance of other risk factors associated with CVD

Ayurvedic and chinese medicine don't really offer more effective treatments, but its the whole philosophy of the medicine. They aim to treat the cause directly instead of blanket treatments for symptoms with pharmaceutical interventions e.g statins etc.

Nutritional advice is pretty simple, though. GP's don't usually go and tell people to munch a bunch of nutritional supplements because in nearly all cases there is very little evidence they have any effect, except in certain cases.

Besides, if someone really has got serious dietary concerns, wouldn't they be best off seeing a dietician, which is what a GP would refer them to?

What i'm saying is homeopathy works in the ways of a placebo if it doesn't work.

Not sure what you mean here?

 

[Naffa]

I used to think homeopathy was utter rubbish and was purely the placebo effect (and to be honest I still do, but this is interesting). HOWEVER, a couple of years ago some of our cattle had become infected with ring worm and we'd spent weeks and weeks trying to find a medicine that would actually get rid of it and nothing was working. We'd literally tried ten or so different treatments and none worked, so we tried a homeopathic treatment and hey presto, cured! I'm pretty sure that the placebo effect wouldn't really work on cows, but the homeopathic remedy to ring worm did. I'm more than aware that this could have been a fluke, or perhaps this is a singular instance where the treatment does work (as that's what I believe happened, but it's somat else to think about ).

 

[bam0]

I used to think homeopathy was utter rubbish and was purely the placebo effect (and to be honest I still do, but this is interesting). HOWEVER, a couple of years ago some of our cattle had become infected with ring worm and we'd spent weeks and weeks trying to find a medicine that would actually get rid of it and nothing was working. We'd literally tried ten or so different treatments and none worked, so we tried a homeopathic treatment and hey presto, cured! I'm pretty sure that the placebo effect wouldn't really work on cows, but the homeopathic remedy to ring worm did. I'm more than aware that this could have been a fluke, or perhaps this is a singular instance where the treatment does work (as that's what I believe happened, but it's somat else to think about ).

Placebo effect by proxy, delayed effect of another treatment or it wasn't actually a homeopathic remedy.

 

[Dolph]

Placebo effect by proxy, delayed effect of another treatment or it wasn't actually a homeopathic remedy.

anything apart from a priori assumption to support the above?

I'm not a supporter of homeopathy really, but statements like the above are no better than blind faith in the process

 

[gurusan]

Can't believe people still buy into snake oil after thousands of years of this bs.

 

[bam0]

anything apart from a priori assumption to support the above?

I'm not a supporter of homeopathy really, but statements like the above are no better than blind faith in the process

Blind faith in what process? By their literature a homeopathic preparation has a minutely small chance of containing even one molecule of active ingredient, there is no support for the proposed mechanism of action for homeopathy, and in trials it fails to do better than placebo. Logical deduction says if the treatment was homeopathic it was not responsible for the cure, and if the treatment was responsible for the cure it wasn't homeopathic.

 

[I get around]

Not sure what you mean here?

durp durp durp DURP durp Durp durp durp durp durp
translates to english:
if it doesn't work, it's the placebo effect which heals you

i assume you speak durp and not english if you couldn't understand what i said.

 

[gurusan]

See, I much prefer medicines which work even if you don't want them to or completely believe they won't.