Lagging Lats

Macabre · 18 Jun 2009 at 23:26

Need some help on my lats. Basically everything is quite well developped. I have a huge chest, arms. Shoulders are quite big but need to work on traps, back in general is big but the lats are a complete pain in the arse. I've been trying everything lately tbh, more sets, less sets, more reps, less reps, wider, wider and wider. Different exercises etc but I can't seem to budge them?

Currently I usually do something like:

Lat pulldown (wide) - 3 sets + 1 superset.
Lat pulldown (vbar) close grip - 3 sets.
bent over row - wide - 3 sets
wide grip pull ups - 3 sets
(some back extensions to finish off)

Thats usually my back workout, before people start im not a fan of deadlifts the reason why I don't do them. I was going to add in t-bar rows?

thx

Morba · 19 Jun 2009 at 00:04

Macabre said:
Need some help on my lats. Basically everything is quite well developped. I have a huge chest, arms. Shoulders are quite big but need to work on traps, back in general is big but the lats are a complete pain in the arse. I've been trying everything lately tbh, more sets, less sets, more reps, less reps, wider, wider and wider. Different exercises etc but I can't seem to budge them?

Currently I usually do something like:

Lat pulldown (wide) - 3 sets + 1 superset.
Lat pulldown (vbar) close grip - 3 sets.
bent over row - wide - 3 sets
wide grip pull ups - 3 sets
(some back extensions to finish off)

Thats usually my back workout, before people start im not a fan of deadlifts the reason why I don't do them. I was going to add in t-bar rows?

thx

2 things:

- " I've been trying everything lately tbh"
stop trying everything. do 1 thing for 6 weeks then review it.

- not liking deadlifts
ok, so you dont like them so dont do them, what do you do instead?

Chong Warrior · 19 Jun 2009 at 00:08

Forget wide-grip, it's a bloody myth that wide-grip builds width if you ask me. I build some good width with this back workout.

Deadlifts
Close-grip palms in chins.
Bent Over Rows - shoulder width grip - pull to abs
1-arm D'Bell Rows

For back thickness deadlifts are unbeatable, especially rack deads. Have you ever tried them?

For width then chins and BOR's are the daddy. You have to go heavy and you have to get the form right. I'm guessing that your back is lacking through lack of correct form. Try going back to basics and really learning to use the lats and stretch them and squeeze them at peak contraction.

Start with Chins at bodyweight and build upto 30 reps with perfect form. Hang at the bottom of every rep for full stretch and then power up, hold and the top and squeeze the back and then slow negs - this is key! You must control your weight all the way down. Once you learn this and are able to start adding weight this exercise alone will be responsible for your back exploding with growth

Heavy BOR's have a knack to them. Don't bend at 90 degree's, stand more upright so about 60 degree's. Shoulder width grip and keep the barbell close to the body for balance and this also allows you to use much more weight. Now don't just pull straight up using your arms, start with the lats, almost like a shrug as you pull back and your shoulder blades push together and arms start to bend as you pull the bar upto your abs. Hold the weight at the top for half a second or so on every single rep. If you can't hold it then it's too heavy and you're cheating the weight up.

D'Bell Rows are a great finisher, just a couple of sets will do. Full stretch at the bottom and pull that DB all the way up, right into your side, your elbow should be right up behind you. Hold and repeat.

Virtually forget about arms for a while. They'll get hammered from this workout... infact you might even notice them get a growth spurt aswell. Hitting biceps hard will only hamper your back workouts, just do a couple of sets of cable curls a week while you target your back and see what happens.

Macabre · 19 Jun 2009 at 00:38

Chong Warrior said:
Forget wide-grip, it's a bloody myth that wide-grip builds width if you ask me. I build some good width with this back workout.

Deadlifts
Close-grip palms in chins.
Bent Over Rows - shoulder width grip - pull to abs
1-arm D'Bell Rows

For back thickness deadlifts are unbeatable, especially rack deads. Have you ever tried them?

For width then chins and BOR's are the daddy. You have to go heavy and you have to get the form right. I'm guessing that your back is lacking through lack of correct form. Try going back to basics and really learning to use the lats and stretch them and squeeze them at peak contraction.

Start with Chins at bodyweight and build upto 30 reps with perfect form. Hang at the bottom of every rep for full stretch and then power up, hold and the top and squeeze the back and then slow negs - this is key! You must control your weight all the way down. Once you learn this and are able to start adding weight this exercise alone will be responsible for your back exploding with growth

Heavy BOR's have a knack to them. Don't bend at 90 degree's, stand more upright so about 60 degree's. Shoulder width grip and keep the barbell close to the body for balance and this also allows you to use much more weight. Now don't just pull straight up using your arms, start with the lats, almost like a shrug as you pull back and your shoulder blades push together and arms start to bend as you pull the bar upto your abs. Hold the weight at the top for half a second or so on every single rep. If you can't hold it then it's too heavy and you're cheating the weight up.

D'Bell Rows are a great finisher, just a couple of sets will do. Full stretch at the bottom and pull that DB all the way up, right into your side, your elbow should be right up behind you. Hold and repeat.

Virtually forget about arms for a while. They'll get hammered from this workout... infact you might even notice them get a growth spurt aswell. Hitting biceps hard will only hamper your back workouts, just do a couple of sets of cable curls a week while you target your back and see what happens.

Right, thx for the in-depth reply. First off the deadlift scene im just not that great at them I will be honest. So if im to do them it would be quite light (for what I can actually lift). I get what you mean by the whole close-grip chins, alough 30 slowly I doubt I could even do but see what happens and try build it up, as an alternative what about close grip pulldown? or even adding that in as well?

Tbh my back as a whole is quite good. aside from the lats + traps everything isn't to bad i'll post pictures if you want? I think it's a case of possibly form on the lats, My bent over row form is quite good but then again im not lifting as heavy as I should, but then if I lift too heavy then the form starts to go keek after reps, quite a low weight but with mint form but slow reps work?

I'll give the db' rows a shot, not done them in a long while but willing to have a bash, im starting to think maybe im not targetting the lats as well as I should? maybe im using other muscle groups whilst doing it, quite embaressing as I've been doing this for like 2 years now. My arms are extremely powerful, like without being big headed at all they are very very strong, but they have always been my strong point. I'll give that a bash though thanks:

http://www.isteroids.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/wolf-bodybuilder.jpg

^ Im wanting my lats out like that, obviously im not going to get anywhere near as big as that without some serious roids, but what I mean is by the shape, the v-shape. I want them to stick right out. Also any wee tips for developing some real boulder shoulders? My shoulders are quite big but I want some serious serious width in my shoulders, coming right out. Thanks. (again if you want any pics of me put up im more than willing to do it).

BullBoyShoes · 19 Jun 2009 at 10:28

@ chong warrior good advice, thanks for that

dun · 19 Jun 2009 at 10:46

Half of getting your lats to pop in front double bi is knowing how to pose to be honest mate. Post up some pics please otherwise I could be wasting my breath.

LabR@t · 20 Jun 2009 at 18:44

my right lat is bigger than the left

georges · 21 Jun 2009 at 11:04

If I was to do Partial deadlifts, with squats also, would this be similar to doing full deads. I didn't like full ones too much, but partial were alright.

edit:thought this was gymrats

Chong Warrior · 21 Jun 2009 at 12:54

Macabre said:
Right, thx for the in-depth reply. First off the deadlift scene im just not that great at them I will be honest. So if im to do them it would be quite light (for what I can actually lift). I get what you mean by the whole close-grip chins, alough 30 slowly I doubt I could even do but see what happens and try build it up, as an alternative what about close grip pulldown? or even adding that in as well?

Unless you're so weak you can't even do a couple of chins then I'd avoid pulldowns and just stick with chins for now. Try to improve by 1 rep per week and focus on your form, don't cheat as all you'll do is get a false sense of improvment and then you'll hit a wall quickly. Don't go to failure until last set, stop when you're struggling or you'll burn out for that session.

Macabre said:
Tbh my back as a whole is quite good. aside from the lats + traps everything isn't to bad i'll post pictures if you want? I think it's a case of possibly form on the lats, My bent over row form is quite good but then again im not lifting as heavy as I should, but then if I lift too heavy then the form starts to go keek after reps, quite a low weight but with mint form but slow reps work?

I'd go lighter for a few weeks and just focus on the form and learn to pull the weight with the lats. Use a weight you can hold at the top as you squeeze shoulder blades together... only needs to be for half a second but if you can't stop that bar going straight back down it's too heavy. Slow lowering of the bar, power it back up into the abs. Keep that lower back straight, bend your legs slightly aswell. Once you click with this exercise you'll know it and you can get very strong at it. I can lift 1.5x times my own bodyweight for good reps for example.

Macabre said:
I'll give the db' rows a shot, not done them in a long while but willing to have a bash, im starting to think maybe im not targetting the lats as well as I should? maybe im using other muscle groups whilst doing it, quite embaressing as I've been doing this for like 2 years now. My arms are extremely powerful, like without being big headed at all they are very very strong, but they have always been my strong point. I'll give that a bash though thanks:

http://www.isteroids.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/wolf-bodybuilder.jpg

^ Im wanting my lats out like that, obviously im not going to get anywhere near as big as that without some serious roids, but what I mean is by the shape, the v-shape. I want them to stick right out. Also any wee tips for developing some real boulder shoulders? My shoulders are quite big but I want some serious serious width in my shoulders, coming right out. Thanks. (again if you want any pics of me put up im more than willing to do it).

If other muscle groups are overpowering others then you need to learn to engage the target muscles by buidling up the mind to muscle connection. This can only be done by using perfect form and lots of focus... I find lots of warmups with light weights helps as lactic acid builds up and you'll feel the pain in the working muscles. A few weeks of this helps you learn how the muscles work, once this is done you can start going heavy and workouts become much more productive.

Get some pics up, always helps to see what's going on!