Arrested for asking a policeman his badge number

Come on now whats reasonable force to a small guy and whats reasonable force to a big guy is a lot.

No, you don't understand how laws are worded.

Reasonable force is not a set level, that would be unreasonable. Reasonable force to a 68 year old diabetic half blind woman is not nearly the same as reasonable force to a 24 stone body builder off his hdead on drugs.

That's why they say reasonable and don't describe restraint techniques or pounds per square foot of force to apply.
 
Personally we should have a crack team that can respond to protests, not some jumped up copper moaning because he/she has to spend all day in a field or a perimeter, you can mobsile a team to get to a protest in any part of the country in hours with the use or planes.

It would save so much hassle, simple coppers that dont know how to control or deal with protesters.

Council tax being wasted on thugs imho.
 
It's laughable. It's trivial. The lady deserves solid beating with led filled batons just to be reminded every now and then they are Police Force, not her chaperones for summer bonfire and those seven days were not exactly book club meeting in woodstock.

And that's where you lost me to be honest.

Its neither laughable or trivial.

I do find it very worrying that more and more people find it completely acceptable to see the police behave like this.

A sign of where we are heading as a country for sure.
 
Personally we should have a crack team that can respond to protests, not some jumped up copper moaning because he/she has to spend all day in a field or a perimeter, you can mobsile a team to get to a protest in any part of the country in hours with the use or planes.

It would save so much hassle, simple coppers that dont know how to control or deal with protesters.

Council tax being wasted on thugs imho.

When you say "thugs" , i assume you mean the police, at least in this case.
 
I'm sorry Von but how on earth you can try to justify this **** is beyond me; I feel that you are a reasonable guy but ..... come on man! once again, the ordinary (maybe difficult) citizen gets abused and 'fantasy' charges made up to allow them to be removed by unreasonable force.

I justified it did I ?
 
Once again we see our honourable boys in blue taking down the hardened, armed criminal ......... oh hang on, ..., it's more like, once again we see the unprofessional, thuggish behaviour of our police force against the ordinary population who any question about their tactics or behaviour.

If I or anyone else was of a mind I bet you could film the honourable side in any town centre any saturday night.

I have less and less respect for these ****s who feel that they can manipulate the situation because they don't like being watched or asked a simple question.[/quote

Totally agree. No offence to Von but they wear the same uniform and the bad gets reported far wider than the good.

I'm sorry Von but how on earth you can try to justify this **** is beyond me; I feel that you are a reasonable guy but ..... come on man! once again, the ordinary (maybe difficult) citizen gets abused and 'fantasy' charges made up to allow them to be removed by unreasonable force.

I don't think he wants to go bad mouthing the police service in a public forum, plus lets face it, he sees the other side of the story far more than you or me.
 
I find hippies as irritating as most, but that doesn't mean they are any less deserving of civilised treatment or that the police don't have to follow the law when dealing with them. The number of people willing to accept immoral and possibly illegal actions because of their distaste for the victims is sickening.
 
I justified it did I ?

It's laughable. It's trivial. The lady deserves solid beating with led filled batons just to be reminded every now and then they are Police Force, not her chaperones for summer bonfire and those seven days were not exactly book club meeting in woodstock.

That isn't exactly decrying it is it.

To be fair I've said it before and I stick with it - it's expected for the PC on the front line to get a bit of an attitude on them when your basically going up against the public day in day out.

We are the enemy in so many of your roles, it's natural.

There should be people higher up perfectly willing to bounce your average PC across the cobbles for acting like a prat though, not sure that's there anymore.
 
You seem to have missed skipped over a key part in your rhetoric. She WAS NOT a climate protester.
Once again. It's 8 August 2008. 600 strong crowd is about to attack Kent's power plant. Two "campaigners" against surveillance and police forward intelligence teams go on at some badge spotting exercise among prevention forces. Does it feel like a Kodak moment to anyone?

I do hate the 'rest of the world excuse' that keeps cropping up when this sort of thing is filmed. We are supposed to be civilised above the levels of behaviour of police in these countries and it does no favours justifying bad behaviour by playing it off against foreign comparators.
And by god, this is civilized. Illegal riot around regional power source and someone was "pressure pointed to the ground"? Are you freaking kidding me? Events like these don't happen without special forces and live ammunition fire anywhere on the continent. And sure as hell don't turn into 7 day picnic for some "police brutality" spotters.
 
No, you don't understand how laws are worded.

Reasonable force is not a set level, that would be unreasonable. Reasonable force to a 68 year old diabetic half blind woman is not nearly the same as reasonable force to a 24 stone body builder off his hdead on drugs.

That's why they say reasonable and don't describe restraint techniques or pounds per square foot of force to apply.

What about the Human Rights Act not to use force that might constitute "inhuman and/or degrading treatment"

That women in the video was degraded dont you think?
They should stop using Reasonable force as a get out clause.
 
Once again. It's 8 August 2008. 600 strong crowd is about to attack Kent's power plant. Two "campaigners" against surveillance and police forward intelligence teams go on at some badge spotting exercise among prevention forces. Does it feel like a Kodak moment to anyone?

Just to make things crystal clear here.

If those two women were just taking pictures and asking for the badge number of one of the police officers.... you truly believe they deserved such treatment by public servants?

(Aren't the police still public servants? Not sure these days.)
 
But then your suggestion was to move to an American style. Which i have to admit liking for the ability to vote in sheriffs (obviously using a different name :p )

However, the American version of reasonable force has to be said to be the same for smaller and larger people. I think no matter your size the impact of a gun shot would be close enough that differences wouldn't matter.

Well I was arrested in Fl once and I used the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and 42 U.S.C

"objective reasonableness" standard, rather than under a substantive due process standard"

Anyway all the cops in Hudson beach are mini MEs :)
 
Once again. It's 8 August 2008. 600 strong crowd is about to attack Kent's power plant. Two "campaigners" against surveillance and police forward intelligence teams go on at some badge spotting exercise among prevention forces. Does it feel like a Kodak moment to anyone?

And by god, this is civilized. Illegal riot around regional power source and someone was "pressure pointed to the ground"? Are you freaking kidding me? Events like these don't happen without special forces and live ammunition fire anywhere on the continent. And sure as hell don't turn into 7 day picnic for some "police brutality" spotters.

Yeah, you really have hit the nail on the head regarding the FIT Watch agenda :rolleyes:

Riot? You couldn't make it up. :D
 
You say a sue culture makes for better policing, but you offer an example where it clearly does not.

If you think sueing police forces will make for better policing then fine, but bringing the US culture into it as some sort of reinforcement is just fluff.

I did not say that, please stop lying about what I have said. In any police force there will be mistakes, both in the USA and the UK. The problem with the UK is the lack of accountability, we have seen it with our MP's, within the child protection agency (look how long it took for the people who should have been looking out for baby P to get the sack) and we also have it with the police.

The sueing culture will not make bad policing go away, there will always be mistakes whenever humans are involved, if we had some accountability the perpetrators of these gross negligences would be adequately punished, named and shamed and the victims would get adequate compensation.

Half the people who work for government run organisations would barely get a job as a supervisor in a McDonalds in the private sector, this needs to be addressed, being able to sue someone and the employer of that person into oblivion when something like this happens would be a step in the right direction of being able to hold people accountable for there mistakes.
 
Just to make things crystal clear here.

If those two women were just taking pictures and asking for the badge number of one of the police officers.... you truly believe they deserved such treatment by public servants?

If they were just taking pictures and asking for badges, of course not. But I don't see how we can possibly remove it out of the context though. It was 7 day long siege which resulted in 50 arrests, court cases and something to the tune of few mln £s of claimed damages to the power plant and equipment. Let's make it absolutely clear. 600 people, are trying to force their way into the power plant. Against court injunction. For all intents and purposes, just about anywhere outside Britain it would be referred to as active act of domestic terrorism. And you have some dumbo going around asking police forces for ID (which, just for the record, again, just about anywhere outside Britain would be either armed, or in full anti-riot uniforms and equipment). Leaving the grotesque surreal element to this situation of what is some vigilantes against police surveillance doing in the middle of siege and possible riots surveilling police - at what point do you expect Police to be lighthearted and bemused by their situation and duty at the given time and place enough to get into casual "Hi I'm P.C. Johny, number XXXX, I was recalled from my holiday and dragged here from East Sussex at 5am to keep an eye on these, here "activistist" actively activating their active actions and protesting their protests, and how is your day?" with what appears to be, for the lack of better description, some random Cornish dumbo with a chip on her shoulder and a notepad and her photo trigger happy friend. It's not like they are journalists in a "press" labeled Toyota following UN peace keepers.
 
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at what point do you expect Police to be lighthearted and bemused by their situation and duty at the given time and place enough to get into casual "Hi I'm P.C. Johny, number XXXX, I was dragged here from East Sussex at 5am and how is your day?" with what appears to be, for the lack of better description, some random Cornish dumbo with a chip on her shoulder and a notepad and her photo trigger happy friend. It's not like they are journalists in a "press" labeled Toyota following UN peace keepers.
They shouldn't have to be lighthearted/bemused to carry out what I understand to be a legal part of their job.
 
If they were just taking pictures and asking for badges, of course not. But I don't see how we can possibly remove it out of the context though. It was 7 day long siege which resulted in 50 arrests, court cases and something to the tune of few mln £s of claimed damages to the power plant and equipment. Let's make it absolutely clear. 600 people, are trying to force their way into the power plant. Against court injunction. For all intents and purposes, just about anywhere outside Britain it would be referred to as active act of domestic terrorism. And you have some dumbo going around asking police forces for ID (which, just for the record, again, just about anywhere outside Britain would be either armed, or in full anti-riot uniforms and equipment). Leaving the grotesque surreal element to this situation of what is some vigilantes against police surveillance doing in the middle of siege and possible riots surveilling police - at what point do you expect Police to be lighthearted and bemused by their situation and duty at the given time and place enough to get into casual "Hi I'm P.C. Johny, number XXXX, I was recalled from my holiday and dragged here from East Sussex at 5am to keep an eye on these, here "activistist" actively activating their active actions and protesting their protests, and how is your day?" with what appears to be, for the lack of better description, some random Cornish dumbo with a chip on her shoulder and a notepad and her photo trigger happy friend. It's not like they are journalists in a "press" labeled Toyota following UN peace keepers.

Paragraph's please. My head hurts trying to read this.
 
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