life after death

[Participant]

What makes you think I'm religious?

A hunch, based on your lack of common sense.

if you lived merely one hundred years ago, your common sense would probably have taken you in the opposite direction.

I have to snigger at the fact that you are using the fact that 100 years ago people were stupid, as part of your discussion (if you can call it that). Perhaps your thinking would be more suited to that era? It's called progression and the fact that 100 years ago people were even more thick than they are now, doesn't really add much to the debate .

Carzy, which coincidentally is an anagram of crazy, your idiotic point seems to be that anything which cannot be disproven, must be true. It doesn't surprise me that your 'logic' takes this path.

The concept of using logic to prove or disprove such an idea as life after death or the existence of God is actually a lot more complicated than people in this thread appear to think.

Go on then, enlighten us

.

 

[Raumarik]

but I'm saying that anyone who outright says that any kind of religious belief is irrational or just plain foolish has also become those things themself.

The concept of using logic to prove or disprove such an idea as life after death or the existence of God is actually a lot more complicated than people in this thread appear to think. In fact, the question of whether it is even possible to "prove" the existence of God is an interesting one.

Why is using logic, evidence and reason illogical, which is by any definition what I've asked for? Please clarify as frankly you seem to be running in circles a tad.

Also why is it such a hard question to answer? why do we have to treat religion differently from any other subject? The question of whether god does or does not exist is fairly fundamental and if proved either way would benefit mankind greatly. A few hundred years ago they wouldn't have thought it possible to prove that the world isn't flat, that the moon wasn't made out of cheese and that goblins don't live under my bed. I can't see why the question of whether God exists or not is untouchable, undebatable and special or why the instant anyone suggests trying to prove or disprove it people throw their hands up and shout "oooooh but that's probably not even possible, ever!"

I've never said anything about anyones rights to believe whatever they want - that's the great part of being human, we're free to do so. However this is just one more question that we, as humans should try to answer.

Anyway off to bed I go, hope the goblins don't get me tonight!

 

[Carzy]

A hunch, based on your lack of common sense.

Right...

I have to snigger at the fact that you are using the fact that 100 years ago people were stupid, as part of your discussion (if you can call it that). Perhaps your thinking would be more suited to that era? It's called progression and the fact that 100 years ago people were even more thick than they are now, doesn't really add much to the debate .

My point is that 100 hundred years from now you could look just as "stupid" as those people.

Carzy, which coincidentally is an anagram of crazy, your idiotic point seems to be that anything which cannot be disproven, must be true. It doesn't surprise me that your 'logic' takes this path.
.

Wow. I wonder whether you are actually reading the same posts as the ones I've actually posting, because if you aren't that might explain how you keep coming up with this stuff.

 

[Carzy]

Also why is it such a hard question to answer? why do we have to treat religion differently from any other subject? The question of whether god does or does not exist is fairly fundamental and if proved either way would benefit mankind greatly. A few hundred years ago they wouldn't have thought it possible to prove that the world isn't flat, that the moon wasn't made out of cheese and that goblins don't live under my bed. I can't see why the question of whether God exists or not is untouchable, undebatable and special or why the instant anyone suggests trying to prove or disprove it people throw their hands up and shout "oooooh but that's probably not even possible, ever!"
!

What if maybe the idea of a higher power is something a small human brain can never truly come to terms with? What if logic isn't such a fundamental system as to underlie everything in the universe, even a (hypothetical or otherwise) world of deities? Rationality as the answer to everything might end up being fallacious for all we know.

 

[ethan]

We're made up of a series of electrical impulses. When there's no longer an oxygen supply, those impulses stop. We're dead, that's it.

Saying that there's life after death is like suggesting that when my toaster breaks down and there's no more electricity flowing through it, it'll come back as a dishwasher. Dumb.

We might be made up of a series of electrical impulses but there is certainly more to us than a series of electrical impulses.

 

[something daft already!!]

As this statement is completely subjective...there is certainly NO evidence to substantiate it (as it is rather hard for a dead person to testify to something)!

Exactly, there is no evidence of life after death in any shape or form or can there be. It is not subjective, simply realistic. I am not living my life governed by any doctrine and I certainly do not feel my strife will be rewarded in the here after.

With this philosophy, one tends to enjoy and embrace life to the full as it can be taken away in an instant.

 

[shauncr91]

We're made up of a series of electrical impulses. When there's no longer an oxygen supply, those impulses stop. We're dead, that's it.

Saying that there's life after death is like suggesting that when my toaster breaks down and there's no more electricity flowing through it, it'll come back as a dishwasher. Dumb.

[Krytan]You mean there's no android heaven?[/Krytan]

 

[eggyoke]

The problem with using nothing but human logic on dealing with the unknown is that it basically denies the possibility of things outside of human knowledge and understanding.

While its obviously understandable why everyone lives by this logic, I also think its arrogant to blatantly dispell the possibility of an after-life just because we have no knowledge of it or its beyond our human understanding.

Hundreds of years ago people thought the world was flat, and that you would simply "fall off the edge." People understood the world and the concept of it in that way, which was a mental limitation of the times, just like mankind has limitations today; things that are simply beyond our current comprehension.

 

[Tefal]

Hundreds of years ago people thought the world was flat, and that you would simply "fall off the edge." People understood the world and the concept of it in that way, which was a mental limitation of the times, just like mankind has limitations today; things that are simply beyond our current comprehension.

No they didn't. the flat world idea was always a minority view.

 

[Nitefly]

We're made up of a series of electrical impulses. When there's no longer an oxygen supply, those impulses stop. We're dead, that's it.

Saying that there's life after death is like suggesting that when my toaster breaks down and there's no more electricity flowing through it, it'll come back as a dishwasher. Dumb.

It would not necessarily be as you describe and certainly not necessarily dumb, just merely speculation.

I personally find it quite difficult to comprehend that everything ends when I die. If this is true, then the whole universe, nay existance, that I live in, also dies with me, from a certain perspective at least, since it will (from my own concious) cease to exist.

What happens to a mind when your body is exposed of? Simply switching off as well perhaps, we don't know. If so, would it be a fade to black? Surely there wouldn't even be black - only literal nothingness.

Very strange. I look forward to knowing to answer, or not as it may be.

 

[Dogoid]

life before death should be more important.


saying that, look at what the law of conservation says.

no energy can be destroyed only transformed.

well, what about our energy , spirit if you like or soul or mind.

all these things intangible but apparent to anyone who thinks they have them.

were does it go ? forgetting the physical aspect, how do we resolve this?

 

[eggyoke]

No they didn't. the flat world idea was always a minority view.

Many cultures in history believed the world was flat. I know I wrote "hundreds" of years which was factually wrong, but throughout history there where large regions of the world that believed the world was flat.

But it doesn't matter anyway, my point still stands. Simply disproving the possiblity of something based on the fact that "you dont know" is stupid.

 

[Lightnix]

life before death should be more important.


saying that, look at what the law of conservation says.

no energy can be destroyed only transformed.

well, what about our energy , spirit if you like or soul or mind.

all these things intangible but apparent to anyone who thinks they have them.

were does it go ? forgetting the physical aspect, how do we resolve this?

Logically speaking the energy is either stored inside your body until it is either decomposed (i.e. providing life for bacteria, maggots and such) or burnt (obviously the burning process uses your body as fuel, expending that energy as regular old heat). Give it a couple million years and we'll probably all be fossil fuels.

 

[e36Adz]

Depends entirely if you believe in the soul. Death is just one stage a person passes through. It goes against the very perfect balance of the universe that a person can live and do anything they wish and then die and never have to account for anything.

What Islam says about death:

[29:57] Every soul shall taste death, then to us will you be returned.

-Quran


[41:39] Among His proofs is that you see the land still, then, as soon as we shower it with water, it vibrates with life. Surely, the One who revived it can revive the dead. He is Omnipotent.

-Quran


[36:77] Does the human being not see that we created him from a tiny drop, then he turns into an ardent enemy?

[36:78] He raises a question to us - while forgetting his initial creation - "Who can resurrect the bones after they had rotted?"

[36:79] Say, "The One who initiated them in the first place will resurrect them. He is fully aware of every creation."

[36:80] He is the One who creates for you, from the green trees, fuel which you burn for light.

[36:81] Is not the One who created the heavens and the earth able to recreate the same? Yes indeed; He is the Creator, the Omniscient.

[36:82] All He needs to do to carry out any command is to say to it, "Be," and it is.

[36:83] Therefore, glory be to the One in whose hand is the sovereignty over all things, and to Him you will be returned.

-Quran

[45:21] Do those who work evil expect that we will treat them in the same manner as those who believe and lead a righteous life? Can their life and their death be the same? Wrong indeed is their judgment.

[45:22] God created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, in order to pay each soul for whatever it earned, without the least injustice.

[45:23] Have you noted the one whose god is his ego? Consequently, GOD sends him astray, despite his knowledge, seals his hearing and his mind, and places a veil on his eyes. Who then can guide him, after such a decision by GOD? Would you not take heed?

[45:24] They said, "We only live this life; we live and die and only time causes our death!" They have no sure knowledge about this; they only conjecture.

[45:25] When our revelations are recited to them, clearly, their only argument is to say, "Bring back our forefathers, if you are truthful."

[45:26] Say, "God has granted you life, then He puts you to death, then He will summon you to the Day of Resurrection, which is inevitable. But most people do not know."

[45:27] To God belongs all sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. The day the Hour (Judgment) comes to pass, that is when the falsifiers lose.

[45:28] You will see every community kneeling. Every community will be called to view their record. Today, you get paid for everything you have done.

[45:29] This is our record; it utters the truth about you. We have been recording everything you did.

-Quran

[34:3] Those who disbelieve have said, "The Hour will never come to pass!" Say, "Absolutely - by my Lord - it will most certainly come to you. He is the Knower of the future. Not even the equivalent of an atom's weight is hidden from Him, be it in the heavens or the earth. Not even smaller than that, or larger (is hidden). All are in a profound record."

-Quran

and God knows best.

 

[Margaret]

Nothing is confirmed though which is why religion is a load of bull crap, nobody here knows and I refuse to believe some silly books.

Only way to know is to die yourself, anything else is speculation.

 

[Lightnix]

Depends entirely if you believe in the soul. Death is just one stage a person passes through. It goes against the very perfect balance of the universe that a person can live and do anything they wish and then die and never have to account for anything.

I'd have to argue that life is about choices and taking risks - you can choose to murder somebody, but there's a good chance you'll get caught and be punished in some way anyway. Respect for my fellow man is a stronger force than fearing a deity who I cannot be certain exists anyway. Also God can't know best, God is an idea, God is an intangible concept, being a concept makes it rather difficult for it to know anything, let alone what is best.

 

[e36Adz]

Nothing is confirmed though which is why religion is a load of bull crap

..in your opinion!

nobody here knows and I refuse to believe some silly books.

Read the books in question first though, cover to cover, then decide if its all silly. (I'm assuming you haven't read them)

Only way to know is to die yourself, anything else is speculation.

Agree with you there, death will provide the definate answer.

 

[e36Adz]

I'd have to argue that life is about choices and taking risks - you can choose to murder somebody, but there's a good chance you'll get caught and be punished in some way anyway.

...and there is a good chance you won't get caught. Does that mean you got away with it? There are also cases where someone might be falsely accused of murder and be punished by mistake? There is also the case that someone might 'kill' someone else by accident, maybe a doctor operating on someone who makes a mistake, or someone in a car accident which wasn't there fault, and they are punished severely because of it, is that fair?

As a muslim I believe that, ultimately everything will be balanced out. Things go on that are unseen to us, but they are all seen by God. Nothing goes hidden and nothing will be forgotten, and in the end no one will feel an injustice has been done because everything will be brought forward. This concept makes the most logical sense to me.

Also God can't know best, God is an idea, God is an intangible concept, being a concept makes it rather difficult for it to know anything, let alone what is best.

All in your opinion of course, which I respectfully disagree with.

 

[NickK]

suggesting that when my toaster breaks down and there's no more electricity flowing through it, it'll come back as a dishwasher. Dumb.

"Don't be daft Sir! Everyone knows calculators go to calculator heaven!"


I'm going to have to remember that one for any future arguments on this subject.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

"Don't be daft Sir! Everyone knows calculators go to calculator heaven!"


I'm going to have to remember that one for any future arguments on this subject.

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