Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2007
- Posts
- 10,607
- Location
- Sussex, UK
get them on windows, servers on linux. Virtualbox to teach the students linux & BSD.
= a win for everyone.
= a win for everyone.
Why do schools hire retards.
- Thread starter Abraxaz1
- Start date
I deliver a variety of services into Educational establishments throughout the UK and I can see why that original specification is quite generous.
Generally schools only refresh their hardware every 4-6 years and couple that with the fact that about 80% of the curriculum applications are designed for Windows, and you can see how she came up with the spec. Add to that the very competitive licensing that is available on a Schools Agreement from MS and there is a compelling argument.
Top it all off with someone who is probably quite risk averse and you get huge machines running the same old software.
Generally schools only refresh their hardware every 4-6 years and couple that with the fact that about 80% of the curriculum applications are designed for Windows, and you can see how she came up with the spec. Add to that the very competitive licensing that is available on a Schools Agreement from MS and there is a compelling argument.
Top it all off with someone who is probably quite risk averse and you get huge machines running the same old software.
Sorry but this whole thread just made me lol... specially the irony in the thread title...
For a school theres no compromise - the PCs the kids are using need to be using XP at a minimum - way too much of their experience will be on windows already and very little of the educational software they will be running will have linux versions.
Already its not uncommon for educational software in some cases to use 3D acceleration for some features so that counts out RDP, etc. and means you need either good onboard or a basic accelerator like a 9500GT or 4650.
Schools don't upgrade regularly so a decent basic spec would give them much better value for money - tho an Atom load out could potentially save them a fortune in electricity. Again the reason they want 4gig of RAM even tho 2gig would be more than fine and 1gig even acceptable is so they don't have to do massive upgrades in the future... and if your not putting high end hardware in there then they would probably get the best part of 3.5gig or so of useable RAM under 32bit.
I do agree tho its utterly pointless having 1Tb HDDs on the client PCs - even 60-80gig would surfice as ideally most stuff would be server driven... also no need for high end 3D accelerators as its gonna be awhile before they need that kinda power and its just gonna increase their heat and electricity bill massively... 30 PCs in your average class room running mainstream 3D cards even idle is gonna be using an aditional 1.5-2 kilowatt... and pumping out enough heat to raise the ambient temp by ~6C or something like that.
For a school theres no compromise - the PCs the kids are using need to be using XP at a minimum - way too much of their experience will be on windows already and very little of the educational software they will be running will have linux versions.
Already its not uncommon for educational software in some cases to use 3D acceleration for some features so that counts out RDP, etc. and means you need either good onboard or a basic accelerator like a 9500GT or 4650.
Schools don't upgrade regularly so a decent basic spec would give them much better value for money - tho an Atom load out could potentially save them a fortune in electricity. Again the reason they want 4gig of RAM even tho 2gig would be more than fine and 1gig even acceptable is so they don't have to do massive upgrades in the future... and if your not putting high end hardware in there then they would probably get the best part of 3.5gig or so of useable RAM under 32bit.
I do agree tho its utterly pointless having 1Tb HDDs on the client PCs - even 60-80gig would surfice as ideally most stuff would be server driven... also no need for high end 3D accelerators as its gonna be awhile before they need that kinda power and its just gonna increase their heat and electricity bill massively... 30 PCs in your average class room running mainstream 3D cards even idle is gonna be using an aditional 1.5-2 kilowatt... and pumping out enough heat to raise the ambient temp by ~6C or something like that.
Last edited:
Getting virtualbox on there could be useful in more ways than one... letting the kids play around with more advanced features without hosing the host OS especially...
Which leads to another point - I hope you have a good plan for quickly recovering a PC when some kid screws it up
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2007
- Posts
- 10,607
- Location
- Sussex, UK
Getting virtualbox on there could be useful in more ways than one... letting the kids play around with more advanced features without hosing the host OS especially...
Which leads to another point - I hope you have a good plan for quickly recovering a PC when some kid screws it up
I know I would be an awesome computer engineer if I wasn't starting teacher training this year!
My best mate runs a local school's LAN. They get a set budget every year and they spend it how they see fit. What he does now is buy ex corporate P4's for the general PC rooms as they are fine for all standard tasks and only cost £60 each including XP Pro. He then spends the bulk of the budget on things like laptop banks, servers and a few good systems for where necessary. There is no need at the moment to buy a Quad Core with a gaming card for any school usage. In two years time you will still be able to go on the internet, run word, etc on the old hardware.
You've seriously overlooked one, massively key point.. "Future Proofing".. as someone has already pointed out, and everyone has ignored, they will not be getting another upgrade for years. The "modest" system you have spec'd will be considered pants in 2 years time.
Associate
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 635
Associate
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 635
I'd be more concerned about how you've managed to win a government contract for a system that hasn't yet been defined
I think he also designed a block of flats combining classical neo-Georgian features with all the advantages of modern design.... and the rotating knives.
Yes, thanks. You?
erm, what 'other costs'?
Associate
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 635
Hardware costs.
Support and training costs primarily, depending on the workplace,there is also application development and deployment costs to consider when changing from windows to linux, and again the associated retraining costs.
A commercial linux solution with a similar level of support to that provided by MS costs a fortune.
You mean the identical hardware costs to windows, if not cheaper?
Windows engineers still need training, hell even users do.. and no matter the platform, any bespoke app is going to cost in both development and training. Regardless of platform.
Systems support for Linux is cheaper than Windows (Microsoft) such as Red Hat's Enterprise support. At least at the various places where I've worked it has been.
Windows engineers still need training, hell even users do.. and no matter the platform, any bespoke app is going to cost in both development and training. Regardless of platform.
Systems support for Linux is cheaper than Windows (Microsoft) such as Red Hat's Enterprise support. At least at the various places where I've worked it has been.
So if there are so many saving to be had, why isn't industry making the switch? This is a serious question, companies are not known for spending more money than they need to in the vast majority of cases.
With regards to the training aspect, the % of users requiring significant training is much lower with windows than with Linux, because most people have used windows either at home or with another employer. Likewise most have used Office etc.
Actually, companies are known for spending more than the need to. I've got first hand experience of this is nearly every role I've been in, especially the main IT sector: Financials. They literally throw money at IT. Every trader has a second, maybe even 3rd PC ready to go in the background in case of a problem, likewise for executives, and strict SLAs for other staff usually mean if it can't be fixed within an hour, it gets replaced. Multiple gigabit lines in redundancy, and of course.. extremely powerful machines to just watch rolling figures on the trade floor. In 2004 ABN AMRO's traders workstations were spec'd to 3ghz, 8gb ram, 0.5TB, quad maxtor graphics cards, 8 19"+ monitors. The displays are understandable.. they need to have vast amounts of information available and on display at all times.. but 8gb RAM? 3ghz chips to scroll text?
There's a reason MS are getting scrutinised for monopolisation, and should also IMO be scrutinised for being inflexible. Which they definitely are. Those adverts that say "We give you the software for your needs" are complete contradictions. To the point now that if you aren't doing it the way MS want you to, you're doing it "wrong" by the opinion of many archaic directors... infact I've actualy seen first hand at RBS, Barclays, and ABN AMRO (before merge with RBS) people say "I want Microsoft" with no real justification other than they have someone to blame if it goes wrong.
There is an increase in the number of Linux engineers. Massively so. Also the same for Linux users. Especially now with companies like Dell offering (Ubuntu, is it?) linux on new Desktops. It's a slow boat to turn, but it's gaining popularity.
At my current role, we are constantly hounded by our clients for using Linux, even after the mulitple times we have proven that what we do cannot be done on Windows, unless we pay Microsoft or other 3rd party an arbitrary fortune to allow us to do so.
There's a reason MS are getting scrutinised for monopolisation, and should also IMO be scrutinised for being inflexible. Which they definitely are. Those adverts that say "We give you the software for your needs" are complete contradictions. To the point now that if you aren't doing it the way MS want you to, you're doing it "wrong" by the opinion of many archaic directors... infact I've actualy seen first hand at RBS, Barclays, and ABN AMRO (before merge with RBS) people say "I want Microsoft" with no real justification other than they have someone to blame if it goes wrong.
There is an increase in the number of Linux engineers. Massively so. Also the same for Linux users. Especially now with companies like Dell offering (Ubuntu, is it?) linux on new Desktops. It's a slow boat to turn, but it's gaining popularity.
At my current role, we are constantly hounded by our clients for using Linux, even after the mulitple times we have proven that what we do cannot be done on Windows, unless we pay Microsoft or other 3rd party an arbitrary fortune to allow us to do so.
Last edited:
