WoW or LOTR online?

[Tombstone]

For the man that asked the original question, World of Warcraft would suit him best

I , on the other hand, stick to my original answer to him on Page 1.

Ignore anyone here who tells you one or the other.

Liking/disliking an MMO is so personal and subjective that there is no such thing as one being universally better than another.

Instead I fully agree with what some others have said, both have trials, the one and only way that you will know which one you like the most is to download both trials and give them a whirl.

Just to be clear, I wasnt bashing you personally Tummy. More the concept that WoW IS the best, when its quite clearly a personal and subjective issue. Hence my original reply to the OP.

 

[Glaucus]

Save some money and get neither. Which is better, doesn't matter they are both rubbish. Along with pretty much every other mmo. The only one which looks like it might be good in the near future is he new Star wars one. Due o the story line within the game. Totally new way of doing things.

 

[Tombstone]

Save some money and get neither. Which is better, doesn't matter they are both rubbish. Along with pretty much every other mmo. The only one which looks like it might be good in the near future is he new Star wars one. Due o the story line within the game. Totally new way of doing things.

How does the story line in that work? Say 2 people are grouped together battling through a base or something..they get to some npc bad guy and they are supposed to kill him for the "quest". If one of the people decides that he wants to be nasty and help the bad guy instead..what happens? Do the 2 players fight it out or something?

 

[bushmins]

Likewise...dont get me wrong, I enjoyed WoW. It was good mindless fun that didnt require me to think and ran well and was well polished (as do all Blizzards games). But compared to UO in its day? ...well compared to what UO was , WoW might as well be windows solitaire. Like you, if any MMO could just give me 50% of UO....I'd be happy. Sadly nowadays, they fail to achieve even 10% of the features of UO.

Yup, im sure Runescape has more game play depth that WoW. WoW is the hack 'n' slash king of MMO's, like Diablo compaired to Baldurs gate.

 

[Glaucus]

How does the story line in that work? Say 2 people are grouped together battling through a base or something..they get to some npc bad guy and they are supposed to kill him for the "quest". If one of the people decides that he wants to be nasty and help the bad guy instead..what happens? Do the 2 players fight it out or something?

not sure. article in pc gamer this month well worth a read. It sounds really interesting. but still not much details. Sill over a year away to release.

 

[Tombstone]

not sure. article in pc gamer this month well worth a read. It sounds really interesting. but still not much details. Sill over a year away to release.

I'll take a read. Just wondering how dynamic the storyline truly is. Whether you can be a good guy or bad guy dynamically or whether essentially you are either in a good guy group following a story line path or a bad guy group following a story line path. Would be nice if its very dynamic so that a person can turncoat on the group they are with and aid the opposite side during the storyline.

 

[spirity]

Tummy bashing finished ?

When you make comments like this...

12 million people started playing World of Warcraft out of choice. Not ****ty Warhammer, or any of the other **** mmo's.

...don't cry foul when you get called on it.

 

[Tummy]

When you make comments like this...



...don't cry foul when you get called on it.

I however never made this personal

My opinion is that Warhammer Online is awful.

You don't need to become personal to put your point across. I haven't

 

[spirity]

I however never made this personal

My opinion is that Warhammer Online is awful.

You don't need to become personal to put your point across. I haven't

You gave a load of really poorly thought out reasons on why WoW is the 'best' MMO out there. When you do that, you make out WoW to be something it's not, and influence people on their purchasing decisions.

That's when I got ticked off and called you a fanboy. A perfectly reasonable response to your irrational posts. I don't see that as a personal attack, more an attack on your reasoning. If you actually gave the reasons on WHY WoW is so popular, instead of "because its got a load of players" things would have gone differently. But you didn't.

Next time, instead of deliberately being confrontational by claiming "wow is the best mmo out there" (and REPEATEDLY DOING IT, trying to shout opposing views down) try something like "wow is my favourite mmo out there". Citing reasons such as "you can roleplay in WoW" doesn't help your case much either.

 

[Tummy]

You gave a load of really poorly thought out reasons on why WoW is the 'best' MMO out there. When you do that, you make out WoW to be something it's not, and influence people on their purchasing decisions.

That's when I got ticked off and called you a fanboy. A perfectly reasonable response to your irrational posts. I don't see that as a personal attack, more an attack on your reasoning. If you actually gave the reasons on WHY WoW is so popular, instead of "because its got a load of players" things would have gone differently. But you didn't.

Next time, instead of deliberately being confrontational by claiming "wow is the best mmo out there" (and REPEATEDLY DOING IT, trying to shout opposing views down) try something like "wow is my favourite mmo out there". Citing reasons such as "you can roleplay in WoW" doesn't help your case much either.

Finally, A decent reply.

Part of what makes World of Warcraft the "best" mmo is just that player base.

You don't have to go very far to find players, to help you out for example with group quests. Finding a group for an instance crawl, can be done automatically with the click of a button. While, I agree with the statement 12 million players attract a lot of immature players, I've never had a massive problem with the immature players. They're very easy to spot.

You can indeed role play in Warcraft, probably as much you can in any other RPGmmo. It's that player base coming back again, I don't want to have to try and find players to role play with (if i did) in the same way I don't want looking for a group to take a long time. You can normally find a strong collection of players in most area's in Warcraft at most times of day.

For a beginner, a noob, to the mmo's category I would advise Warcraft. I defend this to the death.

Why ? Because it's easy, and good fun, and has a fairly nice learning curve, new players won't be confused or won't struggle with the game, and should enjoy it. If they find the game too "stale" or "easy" which a lot of the "hardcore" players do complain about, they can indeed take the knowledge of Warcraft on to another mmo that is more complicated, and has a steeper learning curve. I, personally, yes my opinion, is that I have not found a game that offers me much more then I can in world of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings was brilliant, too look at and play in. (due in part for my love of the books) I however couldn't find players, and as a social person, I like to talk, and chat and group with people. Now, fire the "play with friends" at me and I agree playing with friends is something I do recommend and I do with Warcraft. I however enjoy meeting different and new people, it offers me an inside view on other cultures across Europe and the world.

Warcraft does everything as well as other mmo's in my opinion, I don't enjoy PvP as much, nor PvE as much as I used to. I however, wouldn't swap that for a complicated, empty game.

 

[Tombstone]

You can indeed role play in Warcraft, probably as much you can in any other RPGmmo.

Considerably fewer roleplaying aids in WoW than there are in other MMOs. LOTRO alone has stacks more RP aids than WoW. Again, personal opinion though.

Warcraft does everything as well as other mmo's in my opinion, I don't enjoy PvP as much, nor PvE as much as I used to. I however, wouldn't swap that for a complicated, empty game.

Hmm...everything? Really? Does it do everything as well as other mmos? What about personal housing? Does it do that as well as other MMOs? What about if you want your character to be a crafter and not need to fight anything or level up in order to craft? Does it do that as well as other MMOs? What about personal ships? Does it do that as well as other MMOs? What about dyes...both dyeable clothing AND dyeable furniture/furnishings? Does it do that as well as other MMOs? What about PvP capturable towns within the main gameworld? Does it do that as well as other MMOs? What about PvP risk v reward, the penalties of losing in PvP (aside from merely inconvenience and time loss)? Does it do those as well as other MMOs? What about non-instanced inter-faction shared dungeons? Does it do those as well as other MMOs? What about underwater dungeons and other underwater combat related things? Does it do those as well as other MMOs? What about craftable furniture and furnishings for decorating your buildings with? Does it do those as well as other MMOs? What about player run towns, with options for upgrading the town guards, setting rules and laws within the towns for visiting players? Does it do those as well as other MMOs?

I could go on and on...all of those features are present in other MMOs. (notably most of them were present in UO but thats an aside).

No...admittedly it might be your opinion that WoW does "everything" as well as other MMOs. But personally I think that WoW does very little rather than "everything". In fact, I think that part of WoWs success comes from playing it safe and not doing all of those things above. Everything? No...not for me...far from it when I look at the facts of ingame features.

 

[Tummy]

Ignoring the reason behind my Role playing been good eh ? selective quoting. Got to love it

World of Warcraft does indeed play it safe, It does the whole playing it safe thing very well. You've just described, UO ? Am I mistaken ? Online gaming has come a long way, and I doubt that they'd feature all of the features UO had because of the way gaming as evolved.

They should update UO, and have it just as it was before, but with nice graphics and see how well it does against World of Warcraft

Want to know why I don't like the risk in PvP ? because it sucks, losing gear that you have worked for in a game sucks. I don't enjoy it, and I'm willing to bet a good majority of current mmo players wouldn't like it.

Personal housing ? are we playing Warcraft or the Sims ?
Fair play, Crafting could be good fun, but I'm still willing to bet the people who craft compared to the people who quest, would be fairly easy to spot what is more popular.
World of Warcraft has a town you can fight for

What you have described, are features you might of enjoyed in a game of a gone by era. Now, the trend is to leave these things out, is this because they're bad features ? probably not, is this because they're unpopular with todays market ? probably.

 

[Tombstone]

They should update UO, and have it just as it was before, but with nice graphics and see how well it does against World of Warcraft

We've already covered this, I even think I already answered it earlier in the thread and agreed that it wouldnt do as well as WoW. Not because of game quality but because the player base is changed. Not to sound elitist, but the modern gamer simply wouldnt be able to handle UO. But I will repeat it here simply because you have dredged the issue up again.

Want to know why I don't like the risk in PvP ? because it sucks, losing gear that you have worked for in a game sucks. I don't enjoy it, and I'm willing to bet a good majority of current mmo players wouldn't like it.

Irrelevant, whether you like it or not, you stated several times that WoW does "everything" as well as other MMOs. Or are you in fact agreeing with me that what one MMO player likes another one wont, which merely backs up what I said all along that there is no "best" MMO , and that its different for every player?

Personal housing ? are we playing Warcraft or the Sims ?

You were the one who brought up the issue of roleplaying. There is no one single aid to roleplaying that is as big as personal housing. Are you now telling me that WoW doesnt do roleplaying aids as well as other MMOs? I thought it did "everything" as well as other mmos?

Fair play, Crafting could be good fun, but I'm still willing to bet the people who craft compared to the people who quest, would be fairly easy to spot what is more popular.

See my earlier point about relevancy to what an individual terms as best.

World of Warcraft has a town you can fight for

In the main gameworld? As per my post? or in a seperate instance?

What you have described, are features you might of enjoyed in a game of a gone by era. Now, the trend is to leave these things out, is this because they're bad features ? probably not, is this because they're unpopular with todays market ? probably.

But you said it did "everything" as well as other MMOs?...are you now saying that it doesnt?

Frankly I am struggling to see why you simply cant admit that what is the best mmo is a subjective and personal one, and what one person deems to be the best does not necessarily mean the next person will. I consider UO to be the best MMO I have ever played, but I dont go around saying its the best ever, only that its the best ever in my opinion and others might have different opinions. I really hate to say it, but if you really honestly cant accept that other people might consider that other games are the best, and that no one game is universally the best (it being down to personal taste)..then that truly does sound like you are being fanboish (gah..hate that word)

 

[spirity]

Warcraft does everything as well as other mmo's in my opinion,

Heres my opinions.

PVE:
EQ1. Not even joking here. The raid game in EQ1 is unrivaled. It is /the/ premier raiding MMO, and it's been that way for ages. For standard leveling, there's so many options and content it's insane. There's so much depth and stuff to get your teeth into, I couldn't possibly list it all. 15 expansions. 15.

PvP:
Has to be UO. For anyone serious about pvp (in other words, people who take reward from the conflicts, not the shinies). EVE is also worth mentioning here. For anyone not serious, pick any other MMO, doesnt even matter. Killing a dragon, while fending off a guild thats attacking you - that's pvp.

Crafting:
Umm, dunno, don't do a lot of it. EQ2's crafting system I liked. WoW's is lame beyond belief, but not as bad as EQ1's.

Classes:
Vanguard. WoW is a close second though.

Community:
LOTRO, no question. Helpful and friendly. WoW has the worst community of any mmo I've ever played. Ignorant, rude and self-centred to the extreme.

Dungeons:
EQ1 again. Really complex and exciting dungeons, lots of risks and rewards.

Loot:
Have to give it to EQ1. Lots of cool stuff, some of it overpowered which makes it more fun. Clickies, such as insta-cast speed buffs, illusion masks, levitation rings, etc etc etc.

Getting a group at all levels:
Pretty important. Gotta be WoW here, though I've had no problems in LOTRO either. YMMV.

Housing:
EQ2. And the subject of housing is more important than most realise. Guild halls are just fantastic, as is filling them with interesting loot rewards, such as crafting benches, statues of dragons, pianos that play music, beer barrels that get you drunk, and of course a meeting point for your guild. Honestly, if you ever ventured into a lvl 60 guild house in EQ2 you'd be sold (as well as players having levels, guilds have levels too - the higher lvl your guild is, the more status and rewards you receive -- which in itself is a genius idea).


Lots, and lots, and lots of other stuff.



Can you see how "the best mmo" isn't a straight cut answer?

 

[Tummy]

Irrelevant, whether you like it or not, you stated several times that WoW does "everything" as well as other MMOs. Or are you in fact agreeing with me that what one MMO player likes another one wont, which merely backs up what I said all along that there is no "best" MMO , and that its different for every player?

I think World of Warcraft does everything it needs to, as well as any other mmo. You don't ? You think that a game, that had a very small player base, and has outdated features is still better. I do respect that. I've not gotten personal. I think, that the features you list some sound good, some sound interesting. I also think they're out dated, compared to the features current mmo's concentrate on.

No, I'm standing by my original statement I think Warcraft is the best mmo out there. You don't. I don't understand why this discussion is on going ? I've recommended Warcraft, you've slated it. Happy ?
I think, for the person starting out in his mmo life, Warcraft is his best bet, of which I think the player base is important.

You don't need to personalise houses to be able to role play. It's a feature, In a game in a gone by era. I respect that you enjoyed that aspect of the game, it does sound interesting.

Yes there is the battle for Wintergrasp, which is a castle that you fight for control of, which in turn opens up quests and dungeons.

 

[Tombstone]

I think World of Warcraft does everything it needs to, as well as any other mmo.

Everything "it needs to" is not what you've been saying up to this point. Thats a slight (and much less blanket) alteration on your previous few "everything" statements.

No, I'm standing by my original statement I think Warcraft is the best mmo out there. You don't. I don't understand why this discussion is on going ? I've recommended Warcraft, you've slated it. Happy ?

I havent slated warcraft. In fact if you've been reading you will see that I actually said of it -- "I enjoyed WoW. It was good mindless fun that didnt require me to think and ran well and was well polished (as do all Blizzards games)." -- hardly "slating" it. I said it doesnt stand up well imo against UO, but I havent "slated" the game.

I think, for the person starting out in his mmo life, Warcraft is his best bet, of which I think the player base is important.

Depends upon the player, but for the average player I would agree that Warcraft is the easiest one to play. Even so, I would still (as I have done to the OP) recommend trials of each MMO you are interested in to see which one you like the most , personally.

You don't need to personalise houses to be able to role play. It's a feature, In a game in a gone by era. I respect that you enjoyed that aspect of the game, it does sound interesting.

I never said you "had" to have houses to roleplay. I said it was the biggest single aid to roleplaying. You were the one who said that WoW was as good for roleplaying as any other MMO. I was merely pointing out that it didnt have the single biggest aid for roleplaying and thus could hardly be considered on a par for roleplaying aids thereby debating the whole point of whether WoW had everything as well as other mmos in terms of roleplaying.

Yes there is the battle for Wintergrasp, which is a castle that you fight for control of, which in turn opens up quests and dungeons.

Well if thats within the gameworld rather than an instance, then thats a step in the right direction for me. All they need to do now is make it so that you can fight for control of every city in the game and voila...a truly dynamic war with dynamically adjusting front lines and much more interesting for me.

 

[Tummy]

Alright You've completely reduced me to leaving the forums. You win, You're opinion, some how out weights mine, and I admit that I am wrong. In everything I've said about Warcraft.

Finished with the Tummy bashing ?

 

[Tombstone]

I think, that the features you list some sound good, some sound interesting. I also think they're out dated, compared to the features current mmo's concentrate on.

I should just add , as an addendum, that this sentence hits the nail on the head for me. You've summed it up in a couple of sentences.

Its the reason why I dont get on with so many MMOs these days. The things that MMOs concentrate on now. Gone are the days of community, responsibility for your actions, RP even to a large degree is dead, risk v reward is pretty much gone, the sandbox game style which made UO just so so unique and special.

You're right about the difference in what MMOs concentrate on...nowadays everything seems to be about hand-holding the player and giving them something shiny as a reward...kind of like a parent rewarding a child with a shiny wrapped piece of chocolate.

Dont get me wrong, I am in no illusion that my generation of MMOers is gone. I know we are dinosaurs...we led..began even, the genre, but now our time is almost over. The item reward, show me where I should go and what I should do of the newer generation of MMOers are the dominant market now. I could go into why I think this is the case, but I wont as its a whole different issue and frankly will just paint me as an old fuddy duddy who thinks he is superior to the current generation of gamers.

As I say...its a shame. I really wish more people today had gotten the chance to play UO 12 years ago. Would really open some eyes to the true possibilities of multiplayer online gaming I think. But, cant turn the clock back.

Its why I play LOTRO now...its the best chance I have to encounter mature players who have similar aims and wants from an MMO. Its by no means UO...but it will suffice for the here and now, at least for a little while longer. Once I am done there though its over for me and MMOs. Nothing I see around looks like it can bring back that UO MMO community and scope, so I will hang up my MMO boots at that point. Will have been a good 13 years by then of continuous MMO gaming, so I cant grumble, and will have some terrific memories of UO to look back on. 12 years on and I can still remember the names of the people who pked me and stole all my stuff in UO. Fantastic times, sorely missed.

 

[Tombstone]

Alright You've completely reduced me to leaving the forums. You win, You're opinion, some how out weights mine, and I admit that I am wrong. In everything I've said about Warcraft.

Finished with the Tummy bashing ?

I dont see why you are being so defensive. How have I won?? My opinion outweighs yours?? What are you on about, no need to get all emo. All I have ever said is that there is no universally best MMO..that its different for every player. Am I somehow wrong in that?

I've even said that I thought WoW was a good game, for what it was. Is that a different opinion to yours???

I'm not even sure that I have done any Tummy bashing , I've disagreed with your assessment that there is one designated , automatic best MMO. Preferring instead the opinion that the "best" is defined on a personal and subjective level.

Must say, that post has totally baffled me. Seems a little drama queen like, but I dont know. Beats me. Ah well, so much for a sensible discussion about what constitutes best and whether personal opinion or peer opinion defines somethings quality. Have a good day anyway, hope you can get over my bashing you.

 

[Tummy]

I just can't be bothered to defend why I like Warcraft over any other mmo.

You've shot me down at every turn, I've agreed that many of the features sound good fun, and quite quirky. I've also said that I don't think they have an audience in the current mmo market.

I'm well fed up of discussing this with you, no offense, but I feel like I can't have an opinion on this because every time I've raised what I think Warcraft does well, it's not quite up to your standard.

So I bid you farewell, and I'll speak to you on here again no doubt.