Games for Windows Live - Should we be worried?

Streeteh

Streeteh

Streeteh

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I've just been looking at the feature list for the newly released Games for Windows Live 3.0 and to be honest i've become rather concerned. I do like that a unified system on the PC is finally beginning to rival steam in terms of features which will hopefully make them pick up their act and create an improved service in the future, but there's one feature that stood out like a sore thumb:

Server Side Authentication links the game license to your Gamertag. The advantage of this method is that it allows installation of the game onto any PC, anywhere — only you can access the LIVE service from the game. Server Side Authentication has no affect on offline play..
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Now, we all know that piracy on the PC is a pretty big problem and developers and publishers are trying any method they can to snuff it out, but this measure has worried me more than online authentication or a limited number of activations. Why this? Because it'll also decimate the second hand market for the PC if it becomes common place. People won't want to buy a game that has its online functionality permanently locked to the original owner and in turn the original owner won't want to hand their Live account over to the next owner of the game.

Now to my point regarding consoles, doesn't this also mean that the same form of protection could easily be implemented on the 360? As GFWL and Xbox Live are based around a similar (near identical as far as i know) architecture, what's stopping them introducing it 'over here' too? Many publishers view the second hand market as a similar beast to piracy, all each does is take away from their profits, so i can see them being very eager to implement it if it is indeed possible.

Kind of a random rant there, not much of a point to it, i'm just concerned to see something that has only been an issue on the PC side of things beginning to crop up on services that were originally created for the consoles. The line between the two seems to be becoming thinner every year

Should we be worried, or am i being a ninny?
 
Zensuji said:
I think the clock is ticking on the second hand market full stop. I'm probably wrong though :D
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You can tell publishers are already testing the waters with methods of quashing the second hand market. They have started releasing full games on both Sony and Microsoft platforms as digital downloads and some games are including one-time keys for downloading content (Gears 2 being the most well known example) to deter people from buying used copies.
 
Look guys, it's inevitable. The future is digital distribution or cloud-based gaming. You will never "own" a game, just the licence to play it. Even though I do sell my games when I've finished with them, I still think the developers have every right to try and thwart this practice. I was reading something a couple of weeks back, it might have been about Dead Space, whereby 1.5 million copies were sold but 3 million people have played it. That's 50% loss in sales due to pre-owned purchases.
 
Streeteh said:
You can tell publishers are already testing the waters with methods of quashing the second hand market. Developers have started releasing full games on both Sony and Microsoft platforms as digital downloads and some games are including one-time use keys for downloading content (Gears 2 being the most well known example) to deter people from buying used copies.
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This may be rubbish but I was speaking to a guy in a highstreet store that says around 80% of their profit is from pre owned games. I cant see publishers being too happy about that.
 
Zensuji said:
This may be rubbish but I was speaking to a guy in a highstreet store that says around 80% of their profit is from pre owned games. I cant see publishers being too happy about that.
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It's not rubbish at all, an American highstreet store have openly admitted that the vast majority of their profits are made from the second hand market. I wouldn't mind if the second hand market was quashed, but i don't like what i'm seeing within the methods that remove it; digital distribution for example is nearly always more expensive than the disk version.
 
I've also been wondering about the rental market - places like Lovefilm. How does the money situation work? If I pay my £10 a month to them and play numerous console games, how does the developer/publisher get any money from it? Do they get so much per rental? Does Lovefilm purchase some kind of rental licence for a one-off price of £1000 or something like that?

EDIT: It'd also be interesting to know what % of your £39.99 when you buy a new game goes where and to whom.
 
Skyfall said:
It's not that simple, a lot of those people probably wouldn't have bought it new... If publishers offer discounts over time it would help.
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Indeed, i didn't buy Dead Space new, but i did buy it second hand for a tenner months ago (it's only just reached that price new now, prices would probably remain much higher if the second hand market didn't exist too). I will however be buying the sequel on release day as that second hand copy won me over.

There's loads of factors to both the second hand market and even piracy, one person that has obtained it via those means doesn't necessarily mean one sale lost.

ic1male said:
I've also been wondering about the rental market - places like Lovefilm. How does the money situation work? If I pay my £10 a month to them and play numerous console games, how does the developer/publisher get any money from it? Do they get so much per rental? Does Lovefilm purchase some kind of rental licence for a one-off price of £1000 or something like that?
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I've been wondering about this too. On DVDs there's always a massive bit of text saying 'not for rental' when you buy it, but i don't recall seeing a game with this printed on, so do they just buy the games and then rent them out? As a random side note, i once rented two Blu-rays from a popular rental store and saw the massive 'not for rental' sign on both of them, they got in rather big trouble from that from what i've heard
 
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ic1male said:
Look guys, it's inevitable. The future is digital distribution or cloud-based gaming. You will never "own" a game, just the licence to play it. Even though I do sell my games when I've finished with them, I still think the developers have every right to try and thwart this practice. I was reading something a couple of weeks back, it might have been about Dead Space, whereby 1.5 million copies were sold but 3 million people have played it. That's 50% loss in sales due to pre-owned purchases.
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Pretty much this.

The Dead Space example says a lot. The only potential money they get from these extra sales are people buying the DLC.
 
I don't believe for a second that the 2nd hand market really hurts publishers.If you look at the amount of copies games sell.Gears Of War 2,for example,has sold 5 million copies worldwide.That's hardly a small amount.
All this business with 2nd hand games is simply because companies want to make more money.
Even when people buy 2nd hand games,the chances are they'll buy some DLC for it.
 
I think this is a move to stop people loaning each other games for windows live. My brother bought Kane and Lynch and Fight club on pc and we both installed them on our pc and played the club online against each other witht eh same key. I guess if mates loan each other stuff then developers lose out even more hypothetically (not everyone would buy the games they borrow).

I'm sure the second hand market is huge but actually these days I find better bargains online for new games than the prices the high street charge for their second hand stuff. I guess the average consumer just wants to grab a copy of something on the shelf on a saturday afternoon and isnt bothered by paying a bit more for it there and then.
 
biron_w said:
I don't believe for a second that the 2nd hand market really hurts publishers.If you look at the amount of copies games sell.Gears Of War 2,for example,has sold 5 million copies worldwide.That's hardly a small amount.
All this business with 2nd hand games is simply because companies want to make more money.
Even when people buy 2nd hand games,the chances are they'll buy some DLC for it.
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How many games sell 5 million copies though? Not many.
 
True but trying to stop games selling 2nd hand won't work.
A lot of people simply can't afford to buy a brand new game.
I doubt publishers would be able to get away with getting rid of the 2nd hand market anyway.If you buy something you have the right to sell it if you wish and they would be eliminating that right.
 
biron_w said:
I don't believe for a second that the 2nd hand market really hurts publishers.If you look at the amount of copies games sell.Gears Of War 2,for example,has sold 5 million copies worldwide.That's hardly a small amount.
All this business with 2nd hand games is simply because companies want to make more money.
Even when people buy 2nd hand games,the chances are they'll buy some DLC for it.
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Yes it does hurt the publishers. After a month of a gamees release you will find it cheaper pre owned. Not a penny from that pre owned sale will go to the publisher. Not agaisnt pre owned bought them and sold them, but to say that it doesn't hurt publishers is wrong, what is debatable is the amount of hurt.
 
Ok how about this; games retailers would still have to pay a (reduced) fee to publishers if they sold a game second hand, this would still only be a small percentage but at least it would give those who deserve it a little extra moolah.
 
Streeteh said:
You can tell publishers are already testing the waters with methods of quashing the second hand market. They have started releasing full games on both Sony and Microsoft platforms as digital downloads and some games are including one-time keys for downloading content (Gears 2 being the most well known example) to deter people from buying used copies.
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I bought GOW 2 for the 360 pre-owned , did n't hear about this , what have I missed out on? :(
 
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